103: Steve Saul
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About This Episode
Today we are joined by Steve Saul, a seasoned writer with a background in broadcast social media. Now, Steve has worked on major shows like The X Factor and Britain's Got Talent. However, personal setbacks and the changing landscape of social media have left him feeling a little bit adrift. He's in search of a new direction and new ways to make money from his writing. So we talked to Steve about how he has overcome his challenges and how he might carve out a new role for himself in this exciting new media landscape.
About Our Guest
Steve Saul has written content for the BBC, Channel 4, and ITV. Recently he took a deep dive into getting sober and living with addiction, depression, and ADHD. Steve’s claim to fame is helping launch One Direction on social media! No, they never call... Get to know Steve better and Read some of Steve’s work
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TAE-103-Steve Saul
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[00:00:00] Jude Schweppe: Hi there. I'm Jude Schweppe.
[00:00:04] Gabe Ratliff: And I'm Gabe Ratliff.
[00:00:05] Jude Schweppe: Welcome to the Artful Experience where we have conversations with creative entrepreneurs and business owners, giving them as much support and value as we can pack into 60 minutes.
[00:00:15] Gabe Ratliff: So tell us what's been keeping you up at night? What's been nagging at you?
[00:00:20] Jude Schweppe: What challenges are you facing in your business that you could use some outside perspective on?
[00:00:25] Gabe Ratliff: Maybe you've got an amazing idea. But you're not sure how to bring it to life. We are here to help
[00:00:31] Jude Schweppe: you bring the topic and we'll bring the ideas.
[00:00:34] Gabe Ratliff: Our goal is to give you clarity on your chosen topic and some exciting ideas that you can start implementing right away.
[00:00:45] Jude Schweppe: Today we are joined by Steve Saul, a seasoned writer with a background in broadcast social media. Now, Steve has worked on major shows like The X Factor and Britain's Got Talent. However, personal setbacks and the changing landscape of social media have left him feeling a little bit adrift. He's in search of a new direction and new ways to make money from his writing. So we talked to Steve about how he has overcome his challenges and how he might carve out a new role for himself in this exciting new media landscape. Let's dive in.
[00:01:20] Thank you so much Steve for being on the Artful experience. We are very excited to speak to you. Um, so we're just gonna start off with if you can give us a little bit of background on your topic or what it is that you'd like some support or thoughts on today, and then we'll dive in from there.
[00:01:39] Steve Saul: Okay. So, um, in my background, not sure how far to go into all or anything, but I've got a background in broadcast social media. Um, and I used to do the social media for, uh, the X Factor. Britain's got talent shows, big shows like that. And then, um, a couple of personal things happened and then lockdown. And basically I'm starting from scratch entirely.
[00:02:03] Um, I've like, and what I would really love to do is make money writing basically, and sort of get a career where I can, I don't need a lot, but just to get through the month as a writer. So I'm, uh, I've got expertise across all the major platforms, all those things. I've plenty of experience. I'm just seemed to be completely stranded at the moment and I don't really know how to get out of this sort of rutt diamond.
[00:02:30] Jude Schweppe: Okay. Could you speak a little bit more to what you mean by stranded? Like what's coming up for you at the moment?
[00:02:37] Steve Saul: Um, it's 'cause I've, um, how do I explain it? I feel like, um, kind of like, I just dunno what to do or where to go. It's the first time in my life I've ever, I've usually had a plan. I've usually known who to approach. I've usually, um, no, you know, I've been pretty, uh, self-starting and really I've just been, oh, sorry.
[00:03:02] I's just knocked over there. Um, and I'm really kind of just at the moment, I don't know which direction to turn in because, um, I had a really good job as a, a writer for Microsoft for a while as well. And I took. That was great. And then, but basically it meant whilst I was doing that, I was, that was about 18 months.
[00:03:21] And whilst I was doing that, obviously, um, uh, a lot of things changed in social media land and I wasn't as, as sort of across everything, not, not across everything, but I just, I, it was, it's quite a long time to be out of that industry. And, um, a lot of people, cha you know, the contacts that I had weren't there think lots of different things.
[00:03:43] Everything had changed. I'm kind of just like a, a loose, I don't know quite where to go or what to do or who to contact, who to reach out to. So, um, I don't know what my options are because I also feel that, uh, we've, we met at the A D H D, um, connected talk, and I'm kind, I'm, I. There was a time in social media where I could be left to my own devices to do things, and that was great.
[00:04:08] And it was like, kind of, it was before agencies came in about 2011 really. So that's the, that's when I really felt like I was in my element. But I was running around a TV studio, getting content, coming up with stuff, brainstorming ideas, all those kind of things. I was really just in my element. But then marketing got involved and, um, and it's the only way to do it now.
[00:04:28] It's the only way it's done now, and it's all, it's incredibly, it's the opposite of that. It's all planning, s strategy and it is what it is. But I, I don't, I think I've had some, I've worked with some really talented and brilliant people, but I think I don't fit into that way of doing things very well, if I'm honest.
[00:04:49] So I'm a really good writer. There's one thing I can say is I'm a really, really good writer. I've got total confidence in that, and that's why I'm thinking of focusing on that. Obviously chat, g p T comes along and that. A lot of concerns too. So just as I've kind of got myself, pick myself back up after lockdown, some personal stuff, um, it looks like AI might be taking all the work.
[00:05:12] So, uh, yeah, that, that's how, uh, that's kind of why I feel a bit stranded and directionless,
[00:05:18] Jude Schweppe: hmm. Okay. And so where would you like to get to by the end of this session? What would be really useful for you?
[00:05:25] Steve Saul: um, would be useful. It would be, um, uh, I'd like to know, um, contacts to people, uh, places, just to be, um, I'd like to, I probably need to think of a writing routine 'cause I'm not very good. I'm incredibly good at not, at being, uh, having a routine and not doing it as well, so that like, have a writing routine, an idea of what, how much to publish or something, how much to write, how much to get through, how much to, how to sort of manage myself.
[00:05:57] Almost as though I'm the boss of a company and I'm also the employee and viewing me as the employee in a kind of third person way, I suppose I don't, um, does that make any sense at all?
[00:06:10] Jude Schweppe: Yeah, no ab absolutely. It absolutely does. I guess the first question that that springs to mind, just following on from what you've said is what kind of employee do you want you to be? I.
[00:06:21] Steve Saul: Um, that's a very good question. Reliable, probably more than anything because I'm fairly sure that's what most of my former employers would say they wished I'd been as well. So it's, uh, yeah. Yeah, that would be good. Consistent, reliable. I've been a bit of a, Wild card sometimes when I shouldn't have been.
[00:06:48] So yeah, that would be first and foremost and productive. Just somebody who gets on with it and does
[00:06:54] Jude Schweppe: Mm.
[00:06:55] Steve Saul: by the end of the day, really. I think ideally I'd like to have two or three things written a day, but I dunno how realistic that is.
[00:07:03] Jude Schweppe: Okay. And so what do you feel has changed in terms of how reliable you feel you are now compared to how you would've been working for your former employers? I.
[00:07:16] Steve Saul: Uh, I was fairly because I'm, I'm now five years sober and that's a lot growing up to do in. Five years. So I'm, I'm 47, so it feels like I've done pretty much 45 years of growing up. Um, so, uh, that's the kind of difference in me. It seems a bit, it's a, it is a strange thing where I think I probably, um, in the right place and in the right position.
[00:07:42] I had a, a position with Lego where I was a planner for them, and planning just wasn't, I've got a lot of talents, but planning wasn't one of them. And, uh, they were really good to me. But, you know, it's like, it's kind of, now I'm aware that, um, you know, there are things that I used to take everything, every job that came my way
[00:08:03] Jude Schweppe: Hmm.
[00:08:03] Steve Saul: just for the job, for the opportunity experience, but it wasn't a great strategy.
[00:08:07] So I've kind of learned, um, yeah, yeah, I've learned to kind of be honest with people more, uh, than I have been in terms of what I'm doing, what I'm best at, where I'm best placed. And also kind of, it's not easy, but being realistic about whether or not. A job is for me or not, you know, so, 'cause I recently turned down something 'cause I just think it, it would've led to a pretty unhappy outcome for both of us, the employer.
[00:08:36] So yeah, I've got a different mindset entirely. So I, I, um, I dunno if you're aware, there's a, a, a, even like sober people, even if, if they don't kind of have a program, they can be very erratic and up and down and whatnot. And, um, I was a very rollercoaster kind of person until I really sort of did it all properly.
[00:09:00] But having done that properly, I find myself utterly cornered and I don't, I don't know where to go or what to do or who to approach. So, yeah. Yeah.
[00:09:08] Jude Schweppe: Okay. Yeah, there's a lot, there's a lot going on for you, Steve. I can, I can sense there's a lot going on for you. Um, you've been through a lot in the last five years, as you said, your industry has changed and shifted dramatically. So now it's about finding where this version of Steve, with all the talents that you have fits into this new landscape in a way that's gonna support you as well and support the person you know that you wear and the person that you're gonna become.
[00:09:37] Um, does that sound about right?
[00:09:40] Steve Saul: Yes, that sounds exactly right.
[00:09:43] Jude Schweppe: Yeah. Okay. Uh, we always ask this question and it's such a, a basic question, and sometimes we just don't stop and give ourselves the time to think about it. But what do you really want, Steve? What do you really want for your life, for your work, your creativity? Hmm.
[00:10:01] Steve Saul: I, I mean, I've always wanted to be a writer. That's, that's always been the goal and the dream and, um, and writing books is really what I'm, I. Passionate about. I did it, it sort of morphed into script writing in the nineties when it all seemed so possible in the indie cinema boom back then. But, um, I really, I'm sort of started writing for, for my own pleasure really.
[00:10:26] I'm really loving it and I'm so much better than I was, um, when I was actually sort of being paid to write. It's a really strange situation to be in, but that would be ideal. Just, I don't need a lot, you know, just to, to be a writer with people who read what I write and enjoy it. And I live. Sure. I live near the beach, so that's nice enough.
[00:10:46] I don't need, you know, that just my bills covered, really. See my kids. That's it. You know, A cat, A cat as well as in, that's about it really. So, yeah.
[00:10:58] Jude Schweppe: Hmm. And what kind of things do you enjoy writing about?
[00:11:02] Steve Saul: Do you know, I, I used to. I used to write Supernatural thriller stuff like that, like Stephen King, wannabe stuff. But I'm really getting into murder mysteries and that side of things. I love writing blogs and things like that as well. I'm writing something about succession now and, uh, because it, it isn't being picked up on, but Roman, uh, anyway, yeah, succession owes a lot to 1998 film called Fest, and if you know fest very well, you'll, you might have an idea where the next episode's going and nobody seems to be up on it, so I'll leave it at that.
[00:11:33] I'll leave it at that. But, um, yeah, so I'm really passionate about pop culture, all that kind of
[00:11:38] Jude Schweppe: hmm.
[00:11:38] Steve Saul: Um, but yeah, I love writing mysteries at the moment. I love, I love, I'm reading everything I can find about, um, how to write a good murder mystery. Supernatural, maybe, but, um, yeah, yeah, that's, that's about hopefully the direction I, that would go in.
[00:11:56] Jude Schweppe: Amazing. And what does your writing routine currently look like?
[00:12:01] Steve Saul: Um, I get up. In the morning, I have a coffee and then I'm just writing one page just to get writing and it's usually blah, blah, blah. But sometimes it's, it's nice, sometimes it's good. So, um, and then I kind of, ordinarily what I'll do is I'll spend the morning writing lunchtime, break, print it out, find somewhere, get a a, print it out, get a red pen, go through all the stuff that needs either deleting, rewriting, or changing.
[00:12:32] And then I'll go back, make those changes, have the evening just unless I'm really on one where I really do, I carry on. But then the next day I'll repeat that and that's when I kind of get things finished and done. If I can do that done every day, that's pretty, a pretty good system. So, um, but that was for more for script writing, so now I'm trying to do with with fiction writing.
[00:12:52] Jude Schweppe: sure. So the discipline is there. The discipline sounds like it's definitely there.
[00:12:57] Steve Saul: Yeah. I think, yeah, true. I think, uh, I know about that.
[00:13:02] Jude Schweppe: You're laughing at that one. You're not, you're not a hundred percent sure.
[00:13:06] Steve Saul: Why isn't it? The discipline can be there, but it hasn't been there for a while. I'm sort of waking up from a bit of a dark tie, really. So it's, that's, that's when it has worked for me with the routine, but now I'm just kind of getting back on my feet, so.
[00:13:19] Jude Schweppe: yeah. Okay. So if, if we were to think about paid writing jobs, and if you were to sort of list off maybe five or six different ways that you think you could earn money writing in the current creative stroke media strip marketing landscape, what would those possibilities be for you?
[00:13:39] Steve Saul: I think, um, we, well, I think I've just discovered medium.com where you can write and get paid certain amounts of money for how many people read your stuff.
[00:13:50] Jude Schweppe: Mm-hmm.
[00:13:50] Steve Saul: Um, that's literally, I. Found out about that about, uh, 10 minutes ago. And just before this started, I was like, what? This has been here the whole time.
[00:13:59] And, um, CK is another idea and everything I've been really researching self-publishing and the, the, all the boring stuff that most writers don't wanna do with marketing and kind of figuring that out and, and, um, and so I'm, I'm kind of, I've got professional experience in that area anyway, although I was terrible, but I do at least know what they're talking about.
[00:14:24] So there's that. And the, the first thing they say to do is to get a mailing list system together. Just make sure you've got a regular relationship with a regularly posted email, um, so that you keep your customers and your whatever happens there. So that sock seems to be a really good place for writers to do that and write and publish and keep that going.
[00:14:46] So, yeah. So. That's really my plan at the moment. I've, there's, um, a friend I used, a colleague I used to work with who's very recently yesterday, just suggested he might be able to know a few people who, um, might be able to help me out. But, uh, again, so it's a really strange thing where, um, I've, I've only just heard of a writer's portfolio so everyone knows about it, but I've until, um, got, what, 2015, whenever the lockdown was, until then, I'd sort of gotten work on recommendation anyway, so I'd never really set up my own website or it had just been rolling and going.
[00:15:24] Okay. Um, so I've never, I'm discovering this now when, you know, everyone's like, alright, granddad, you old man. What? Yeah. How called fool? So, yeah, so I'm, I'm learning all these things, but, um, and, and those are the avenues I'm gonna explore, but yeah. Yeah, it's, um, it's just a strange. Of limbo that I'm, I sort of feel like I'm in.
[00:15:49] I dunno if that's fair or not, but
[00:15:51] Jude Schweppe: Okay, so if I put on my sort of marketing creative director's hat, um, 'cause I've worked in the marketing and advertising industry for about 17 years. So the first thing I would always look for is a writer's portfolio. So just samples of the different styles and different types of, of work that you do.
[00:16:11] So I would be looking for a blog post. I'd be looking for examples of social media content. So short, snappy to the point sort of copy. Um, I'd be looking for examples of email newsletters that you might have written for a client. So all of the things that, all of the sort of writing essentials that go into any marketing or advertising campaign.
[00:16:33] Potentially, um, some press ads that you might've worked on. Anything that you can think of that sort of demonstrates your thinking, your style of writing, and allows me to see the breadth of your work. So if I was to, again, put the sort of consultant's hat on as opposed to the coach's hat and offer some sort of starting point advice, I would say would be to get your portfolio together.
[00:16:59] Steve Saul: Okay,
[00:16:59] Jude Schweppe: So you could, you could potentially put two different types of portfolio together. One for creative writing and one for much more sort of technical marketing, um, commercial style writing if you like. And then you've got both of those available and ready to go. When somebody says, awesome, we're always looking for great writers.
[00:17:21] Can I see some samples of your work? So how does that feel as a, a sort of starting point? To get you focused on, these are all the things that I can do, and these are the examples that I have of that work.
[00:17:35] Steve Saul: That feels really good. I'm gonna have to go through, um, quite a lot of stuff actually, when, when you think about I've got to trace. Um, yeah, it sounds very doable and I can get on that case straight away. So, um, yeah, I started in Twitter when, um, doing Twitter for TV shows when Twitter didn't even allow you to upload photos directly.
[00:17:57] So what made me laugh is that most of the images, I've got the captions, but the images were, will have been gone, deleted from that era, but 2009, 2010, anyway. But yeah,
[00:18:07] Jude Schweppe: But you've got the skill. You've got the skill because you have got you, you know, you know what it takes to make a tweet successful purely on whoever many characters it was back then, purely on a very, a very small number of words that you could put into the tweet. Um, so that's, that's really honing that skill, you know.
[00:18:27] Steve Saul: Yeah. Yeah. I loved that. I loved Twitter and it was nice and short. Was it 140 karats? 120 when it was
[00:18:32] Jude Schweppe: something like that. Yeah,
[00:18:35] Steve Saul: getting something down to the most sort of crystalline form you could get. Uh, you know, that's what all good comedians write jokes and get them down and down and don't take all the stuff out.
[00:18:44] And so I really miss those days. But it is what it is.
[00:18:48] Jude Schweppe: absolutely. But that is a skill that's still a hundred percent required, you know, and you might have an art director who's gonna work alongside you and say, well, what's the image that we're gonna put with this? But people are always going to need somebody who can convey a message in a really sharp, snappy, be it a tweet, be it a headline, be it, you know, a caption on Instagram.
[00:19:09] So you, you've got an incredible toolkit, Steve. It's, it's just about how do we package that in such a way that, you know, This generation of marketeers can see exactly what you could bring to the table. And I say this generation because there's so many, you know, particularly social media marketing agencies that are run by people a lot younger than you and me.
[00:19:30] Steve Saul: Yep. Yep.
[00:19:31] Jude Schweppe: Um, but they're still always gonna need that expertise and that, you know, ability and way with words. Words. Um, so my cha first challenge to you is to create two folders on your laptop. One of them for examples of your creative writing and one of them for examples of your more commercial style writing.
[00:19:53] And if you feel as though the stuff might be a little bit dated or you wanna update it, then give yourself like a spec brief. And say, right, I'm gonna write a series of tweets for succession. I'm gonna write, you know, a blog post on succession. You decide, you know, this is, this can be the fun bit for you.
[00:20:12] You can decide your specialist subject is succession, and this is how I would roll it out across a blog post and a series of tweets and a series of Facebook posts, whatever it is. Um, and make it fun for yourself, you
[00:20:23] Steve Saul: yeah, yeah.
[00:20:24] Jude Schweppe: make it fun for yourself. Um, and the next question I have before I hand over to Gabe is, if you were to have a specialist niche subject, what would it be?
[00:20:35] What would really light your fire in terms of what you'd love to write about?
[00:20:39] Steve Saul: Oh man. Um, it would be stor like story structure. I'm, I'm really mad on, um, a really good, well-told, um, story. Like just when something's so good, you know, like, uh, back to, I can't, I could list it, but I was talking to somebody about their writing project today and just went, how, what makes a really great, you know, beautifully formed story.
[00:21:02] Um, that great. But yeah, and again, writing about what thrillers and misdirection, all those things, you know, what makes a great tale, well told, um, yeah.
[00:21:14] Jude Schweppe: Amazing. I'm sorry, I've just got one more question. Um, and this is just kind of sharing my experience from using LinkedIn, which was the platform that I found I felt most comfortable on. I felt like, you know, these are, I can find my people here. These are the kind of people that I would like to work with and like to get to know.
[00:21:33] Um, and very timidly stepped out onto LinkedIn at the beginning of 2022. Really not sure what the vibe was. You know, how I could show up. And I have written almost every day, with the exception of a couple of weekends and a couple of days when. Life got the better of me. Um, and I've just shared myself, I've just shared stories.
[00:21:57] I did a, a, an experiment at the beginning of this year where I shared 30 days of storytelling and just took stories from my life. And it was an amazing experience for me. But also I got so many people contacting me and saying, I love the way that you write. I run an agency. Um, you know, we're always looking for freelance writers.
[00:22:18] So I would say LinkedIn could be a, a brilliant opportunity for you to show what you do and for you to start attracting a little merry following. Um, and I think when it comes to writing, the, the best way of, of advertising yourself is simply to write
[00:22:36] Steve Saul: Right. Okay. Okay.
[00:22:38] Jude Schweppe: and let people see what you do.
[00:22:40] Steve Saul: I feel like oddly I've, I don't understand why, but I feel really intimidated by LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, other things. I feel fine. LinkedIn, I find, um, really, um, I dunno what it is, but it's daunted by it. And, um, um, I've got a, I think I've got a lot of experience with mental health
[00:23:02] Jude Schweppe: Mm-hmm.
[00:23:04] Steve Saul: wellbeing, depression, a lot of things to kind of, that I've learned very recently
[00:23:09] Jude Schweppe: Hmm,
[00:23:10] Steve Saul: um, I.
[00:23:12] I could share, share, but I'm really wary of looking like, um, I'm trying to make that about me, if you know what I mean. I feel like I'm the guy who does that and, and it's, I'm sort, there's, I've got some kind of barrier to sharing a lot of things that I'd like to write about. 'cause I'm really don't like a massive narcissist, basically.
[00:23:35] So, um, like, you know, it's, um, I I, you, you wrote that brilliant thing about, um, you've read every self-help book there was and then turned back to fiction and I was like, I, yeah, I, I totally agree. I totally like, that's exactly what I've been doing. I've spent a lot of time just caning every book about everything that I can, uh, do.
[00:23:54] But, um, I sort like, I dunno, I feel like it's a, a loss of status. I dunno quite what it is, status or something, but I'm really kind of daunted about getting back into the whole thing again. I
[00:24:06] Jude Schweppe: Hmm.
[00:24:07] Steve Saul: um, yeah.
[00:24:09] Jude Schweppe: So if I was to set you the challenge of dipping your toe into LinkedIn and maybe just starting somewhere that felt comfortable for you and just being yourself. And just being yourself. And I think that's one of the things I'm, I'm sure Gabe will, will support me on this is again, I was like, I don't know how I'm supposed to be on LinkedIn.
[00:24:30] Is it supposed to be super professional? Are there certain things that I shouldn't talk about? And as soon as I sort of threw away the rule book and just went, I'm just gonna show up, I'm just gonna show up and write about what's popped into my head in the shower this morning. And that's literally how I kind of found my groove on LinkedIn and found my voice on LinkedIn.
[00:24:49] Um, I didn't plan anything. I didn't have like a content strategy. I did have one and I got so bored with it. I was like, yeah, this isn't gonna work for me. So I literally came to the conclusion that whatever popped into my head when I was out walking or in the shower was how I was gonna prevent my present myself on LinkedIn.
[00:25:09] And it's worked. It's worked really well for me and I feel like I have connected with the right people. The right people have got my vibe, got my energy. You know, similar storytellers, similar, similar kinds of people who love a good story. So my challenge back to you would be what feels like the least daunting way that you could show up on LinkedIn authentically and just do what you do, which is right.
[00:25:36] Yeah.
[00:25:37] Steve Saul: Right. Okay. That's interesting. I think I do love good broadcast social as well. I do. You know, when you see people doing it well, it's, that's something I can probably share there quite, quite naturally as well. Yeah. Okay. Brilliant, brilliant.
[00:25:51] Jude Schweppe: So I'll, I'll leave that one with you. Yeah, I'll leave that one with you. So, so the, my two challenges to you are to start collecting, uh, examples of your work, one for commercial, one for creative, and start putting together a portfolio of your favorite pieces that you feel really show how you can shine in the various different styles of writing.
[00:26:13] Um, and I'm sure I'll have more, but I'm gonna hand over to Gabe now
[00:26:16] Steve Saul: Yes.
[00:26:16] Jude Schweppe: uh,
[00:26:18] Gabe Ratliff: Yeah. And um,
[00:26:19] Jude Schweppe: you further?
[00:26:20] Gabe Ratliff: and the other, and thank you, Jude. The other one was dipping your toe. In a platform right.
[00:26:26] Jude Schweppe: Yeah. Into LinkedIn. Yeah.
[00:26:28] Gabe Ratliff: Yeah. Um, I wanted to, if it's okay, I'd love to share a story with you, Steve.
[00:26:34] Steve Saul: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:26:35] Gabe Ratliff: So I, I was in a similar place as you. Um, so there, there's actually several things that I connected with you on.
[00:26:43] So in 2020 my dad got, uh, lung cancer and he, he had stage four and I went to care for him during the pandemic and he passed away after about three months of care. So it was very aggressive. Um, that experience, you know, coming back from that, I was gone from my partner. Uh, she and I were separated for three months.
[00:27:06] So all kinds of stuff came up with that. Um, good and bad. And then, you know, just like being apart. And we hadn't been for years. And, um, I. The loss of my dad, like all that stuff. So I got into a really dark place myself not that long ago. So I, I connect with you on that. I also stopped drinking last year, so I connect with you on that.
[00:27:28] So, um, and congratulations on that. Um, thank you. Uh, I was self-medicate. Like I got super depressed. I was getting suicidal, all that stuff, and I hadn't been that way since I was like 16. So listening to the cure and, uh, figuring out how I was gonna do it, all that stuff, you know, and so I got, so, you know, this self medication and all those things.
[00:27:52] So, but what ended up happening was it ended up being this really maturing experience, you know, of, of losing him and seeing, like being there as a caregiver. And, and it, and it similarly shifted me into this place of like, I want to be a different person. I want to like evolve. And that's what I heard from you from the very beginning of this conversation is that I.
[00:28:11] You have this, you've evolved, right? You're this new person, but the industry changed, right? And you've changed, you've evolved. I, I don't, you know, sometimes people have a negative term about change. Like, they don't like change. Meanwhile, you know, we're, we're always evolving. Right? And just you're growing.
[00:28:30] Like you, you said you read a lot of self-help books. I did. Same. We, we've all done that in this forum and I just, I was connecting with you on so many levels there. 'cause I get it. You know, and where I wanted to kind of take that was, I didn't feel like I had anything to say either. I was like, who am I?
[00:28:49] Who the fuck am I? Right? And that's something a lot of us say, especially when you see so many people out now with a platform and with influencers and celebrities and like all this stuff. And you're like, well, they're so cool and, you know, and they're not cool, whichever it might be. And. I started this, my own kind of exercise in this same right as what Jude proposed, and I started to dip my toe.
[00:29:14] And I, I similarly love LinkedIn because I think it, it kind of found this place of balance where I think other places like Twitter kind of became this, like the mob is what I sort of liken it to. It's become this mob where it's like people are like, you know, the cancel culture is there and all this stuff, right?
[00:29:35] There's all kinds of things and people are just trying to get seen and it's just like, shout, shout, shout, shout, shout, shout, shout. Because it's short. Um, and it's become this kind of mob place where, you know, Facebook was the cool place and then like the young generations are like, no. And they went to TikTok and all that stuff, right?
[00:29:54] Uh, Snapchat before that. And they're kind of like, just, what's the next thing? What's the next thing? You know this like, Crazy hamster wheel, but I feel like LinkedIn, it started as professional place and it had to do, it did this kind of weird pendulum swing where people were like, this isn't a place where you talk about personal stuff.
[00:30:09] But then people were like, but I'm a person,
[00:30:13] Steve Saul: Right,
[00:30:14] Gabe Ratliff: you know, like, I'm a person and I am an a professional. And so it kind of found this really interesting place. And so I did the same thing. I, um, I started to just write one piece a week and I hadn't written for so long and that I used to study poetry and literature and all these things, you know, along with film and photography in college at uni.
[00:30:36] And people would say, you know, that I was a good writer as well. And I was like, oh, okay. And so I just, but I, but I, similarly to Jude, I started my own. It was, for me, it was this cathartic thing and I started writing about my journey and like the losing the loss of my father, you know, and the things I knew.
[00:30:58] I found like, like this thing where people have started to say like, these wonderful things, like, thank you so much for sharing this, and Oh, I feel I get it. I, I, I've gone through this as well, you know, just like I got it when you were talking about what you've been through and going, oh, here's somebody else who's also similar in age and understands like that evolution of like, I don't wanna be this way anymore.
[00:31:20] I don't wanna do this. I wanna be a different person. I wanna let this go and um, and I wanna reconnect with this. Or I want, you know, I wanna go this direction right. With your writing. And so, um, I just wanted to share that with you because I had that same thing, but I started to, as I did it and just did it for myself and I did one piece a week 'cause that was enough.
[00:31:41] And I was like, I'm gonna stick with this, you know, and just see where this goes. And, and then I started to hear from people, like, like I said, you know, just, just hearing that it was more about that being seen. Not that I needed to be like, not that it, it, it, it, it, it, um, took away that feeling of narcissism because it was more about community and being seen and like that we understand each other, like that there's an appreciation for each other as humans, and that we are alike as opposed to apart after having several years of feeling apart in some ways, um, physically and emotionally with people.
[00:32:22] And so, I, I just wanted to share that with you to also hope, hopefully kind of like shed a light on that, that it, it's not about if you're, if you're already aware of it not being from a place of narcissism, that's already the good start, right? Like, you're coming from this place of like, no, I want to give and I wanna, I am a writer.
[00:32:42] I wanna write, you know, and so like, it's, it's almost a disservice to not, I. Provide that Right. To not be, share that gift and to share the gift of you, Steve, and your journey. Right. With others who can go, oh, fuck yeah, I get it. Right.
[00:33:00] Steve Saul: yeah.
[00:33:00] Gabe Ratliff: So I just, I wanted to share that and hopefully that, uh, provide some kind of sense of, uh, space and permission, you know, as well.
[00:33:13] From a, from a, from a, a fellow person who understands that, you know,
[00:33:19] Steve Saul: Thank, thanks for, um, sharing that, uh, it means that I'm sorry to hear about your dad and I'm sorry you had to go through that time on your own dealing with things on your own as well. That's must have been incredibly hard. Um,
[00:33:33] Gabe Ratliff: it, you know, I actually am grateful. I, I came out of it once I got through it, you know, like once I got through the loss and, and like worked, had the hindsight, as I look back now, I'm just grateful for the gift. I got that gift of three months with my, with my pops and my mom and um, and we, there was a lot of baggage that we had to work through.
[00:33:57] Um, but we got to work through it. And I, and, and it was at a time when a lot of people weren't apart and weren't even able to see, you know, maybe even say goodbye to their family. So
[00:34:06] Steve Saul: yeah, yeah. Oh, no. Thank you for sharing, uh, such a personal thing. It's appreciated. Uh, I think there's a lot of. Uh, I think you probably might know, but I, um, there's a lot of getting sober. You really do look at the past with very different eyes and, um, there's a lot of guilt. There's a lot of things to deal with before you, I think maybe before I actually start thinking, right, I'm someone who can put pen to paper again and do those things.
[00:34:41] I don't know, maybe I'm just need to do it and work through, like you say, like thank you, the permission you, you're mentioning there. And so, uh, yeah, it's, and uh, yeah. Yeah, I think that's probably the thing, really. Um, yeah. Yeah. I got it's, um,
[00:35:01] Jude Schweppe: sorry, Steve, I, I've got a question and I hope this kind of lands the right way, but. We talk a lot about, um, just wanting to be of service and I know that's kind of a, a buzzword in royal circles at the moment 'cause I know a couple of the royals have talked about wanting to be of service. But how would you like to be of service through your writing?
[00:35:25] Steve Saul: Um, it's really like I, there's some things that I've been, felt, there've been moments where I've never felt so alone and about things that aren't simply, um, not sim that aren't just, um, addiction getting sober. There's other things that I think if there's, if, if I could write something that would catch someone's eye when they're in that spot, in that moment, that would probably be really good.
[00:35:58] I think that would be a good outcome. Um, but there, and there, there's all of that. I sort of consider that like, these are all like contact points, aren't they, for people who are in trouble and need help and, you know, uh, so that would be great. That would be really great. And, uh, Maybe doing it in a way that's more attractive than promoting it as well.
[00:36:21] So, you know, kind of without you, I think I could very easily write 10 blog posts that absolutely hammer everything on their head, but that's not how I considered, that's not what planted the seed of deciding to change. You know, it's little things here and there that I picked up on from our other places.
[00:36:39] I dunno why denial is so insanely powerful when you're in it, but you know, it really is and it isn't the obvious stuff. I would've probably, you know, gone to the pub on like, if I'd read stuff that's, so it's, it's, now I've kind of got a, an idea of maybe what is helpful to someone who's not, who knows, but doesn't want to know if you know what I mean.
[00:37:02] So maybe, maybe that would be the approach. Um, but yeah, it would be good to, I think sometimes just knowing you're not alone is a really good feeling. And, um,
[00:37:14] Jude Schweppe: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think you'd be amazed at the community that you would find again on a platform like LinkedIn. Um, and, you know, if I can share something personal with you, we met when, you know, I spoke at the, um, connection hub event and one of the, one of the most suce successful, and I use the term very loosely, but one of the most, um, popular posts, if you like, that I've written this year.
[00:37:45] Was when I shared about, um, how I struggled having a D H D because there was this sort of narrative, which, you know, I, I, I do fully agree with as well around the fact that A D H D is a superpower and you, you're creative and you're empathetic and you're, you know, all of these very, very positive things.
[00:38:04] Um, and I don't want to invalidate that at all, but also I've found it really fucking hard. I found it really difficult. Like it, it show up, it shows up for me in really debilitating ways a lot of the time. And so I wrote a post that started A D H D is shit, or having a D H D is shit. And I was like, I'm just gonna say it.
[00:38:27] And I listed all the ways in which it impacted my life and my mental health. And, you know, so many everyday things as well as things in the bigger grander scheme of things and the bigger picture of my life. Again, it was one of those posts where so many people sent me a DMM and said, oh my God, thank you for saying this.
[00:38:47] Steve Saul: Right.
[00:38:48] Jude Schweppe: And shared their stories with me and connected with me and, you know, sort of chose to follow me. And we had a dialogue and I was like, well, I wrote that post 'cause I was in a shitty mood and I wanted to just have a little rant about it and get it out there. But that post was helpful to people because, like you say, it felt, thank God I'm not alone in this because I, I think, you know, and I in no way want to compare having a D H D to, you know, struggling with addiction and overcoming addiction, but we can get very caught up in our own experience of that thing. And it sort of, sharing it takes some of the victimhood out of it for me. It certainly did because I'm someone who can kind of, tend to the, with me, um, You share knowledge, you share insights, you share experience. You, you, you become enlightened. You know, you learn from other people and, and you build that sense of community.
[00:39:50] Um, so I would love to read your story, Steve. I would absolutely love to read it. Um, and I know there will be so many people who will, because there aren't that many people who have the courage to share and who have the courage to do the work and the deep digging that's required to actually tell their story.
[00:40:15] So this is from a purely selfish perspective, I would love you to write your story and I would love to read it. So I wonder how that lands with you when I say that.
[00:40:27] Steve Saul: Uh, it's all very, yeah, it's very powerful to hear that and thank you. And, um, the, like, I dunno if you have this, where if I had a time machine to go back and tell the young me that what, and explain what I know now, you know, there's, that, that's a story I've always sort of thought about writing. But yeah, I will do, I will do because, um, Yeah, I can remember like career wise, dozens of people.
[00:40:56] If I could just go back and explain to them why I was behaving so bizarrely. 'cause now I know, but you know, it's, um, school, you know, there's all these things And, um, I think the problem is I could probably write a life story and you'd have to take a month off or something, but, um, yeah, I will, um, I'll, yeah, I'll gladly write that.
[00:41:16] And, uh, I think I, I, I think that's the thing where I feel, I feel good about having gotten to place I'm at, but I don't, I can't stop feeling bad about the things that I did wrong, if you know what I mean. It's really, I cannot get past that. And so, uh, to write, like, to write something victorious or celebratory seems inappropriate.
[00:41:45] And I think that's something that, um, 'cause there's a lot of other people who would probably have. Their take on my story as well, you know? Um, so yeah. Yeah. But I would, I will write it, um,
[00:42:01] Jude Schweppe: And nobody has to read it. Nobody
[00:42:04] Steve Saul: Oh, okay. Right. Okay. Okay.
[00:42:06] Jude Schweppe: I would love to read it, um, because I'm curious about people's stories, but I think, you know, two, was it two years ago? I've completely forgotten where we are in day in time and space because of Covid. No, it was before Covid. Um, I sat down to write my story as well and I worked with an editor and she's one of the most sort of empowering and freeing things that she said to me was Write as though no one is ever gonna read this.
[00:42:34] So write the, the truthful, honest story. No one ever has to read it apart from me and apart from you. And that will give you the permission and allow you to tell the truthful story and to tell the authentic story. And there was something. Hugely, hugely cathartic for me in that process. So I was pregnant at the time.
[00:42:56] I got through 10 chapters of a 12 chapter arc, and then it was a heat wave, and I was nine months pregnant and I was exhausted, and I never finished it. And I go back to it someday. But the whole, just the process of, of writing it was so liberating. It was very healing. And I don't use that word lightly, but also I forgave myself for so many things when I sat down and wrote my story because I was able to be so ob objective about it, and look at this, look at this person as though she was a character in a story.
[00:43:34] And by the time I'd got to the end of it, I was like, oh, well that's why that happened, and that's why I did that. And that's why that didn't happen. So it was, it was a very, very therapeutic process for me. Um, and maybe someday I will finish it. I'm not quite sure that I've got to the end. I'm not quite sure I've got to the end of, you know, the story that I want to tell, but knowing that I didn't have to show it to anyone was hugely powerful for me.
[00:44:02] And also it was just a really great writing exercise, you know, to help me with structure, to help me with story arc to help me remember, to help me sort of, you know, get a, a, a sort of a, a miniature story in each chapter. Um, so from, from a purely practical practice perspective, it was a brilliant thing to do.
[00:44:24] Steve Saul: right. I'll do that. I'll do
[00:44:26] Jude Schweppe: that may, that, that may be something that, you know, you do alongside working on this more sort of commercial and, you know, paid writing work that you do.
[00:44:39] Steve Saul: Yeah.
[00:44:39] Jude Schweppe: Um, does that help? Does,
[00:44:42] Steve Saul: Really, really helps, really, really helps. And um, I'll do that. I'll do that, I think. And, um, yeah, I think as well I need to, yeah, so it's really, really helpful actually. It's sort of, um, it's obviously, it's such a strange time for me. I feel like, you know, I dunno, I can't quite explain it, but it's really small steps to get back up and running, hopefully, eventually.
[00:45:06] And, um, which sounds, but you know what I mean? Um, yeah. Yeah.
[00:45:11] Jude Schweppe: Absolutely Steve. Humble steps. Humble
[00:45:13] Steve Saul: Yeah.
[00:45:15] Jude Schweppe: And you know, it sounds as though writing is. Hugely important as an anchor for you in your life. So if you can hang onto this anchor, this talent, this gift that you have, and just give it all the love and nurturing that you can at this particular period where it feels you feel a little bit at sea.
[00:45:35] Um, and maybe, you know, combine this nurturing of your talent and your creativity with the humble steps that you feel you can take from a more practical perspective. Like establishing your presence on LinkedIn or CK or Medium or whatever it might be, and just taking one or two steps that feel as though they are propelling you in the right direction.
[00:45:57] Um, and you know, from a practical perspective, there are lots of. Sort of freelance writing websites that I can connect you with, and I'll send you an email after, you know, we finished on this call where I got my start as, as a freelance writer. Um, and one thing leads to another and you start building up your portfolio.
[00:46:18] Initially the work might not necessarily be brilliantly paid, but as I said, you are, you know, you're getting your foot in the door, you're starting to work that writing muscle, and you're starting to build up your portfolio. And then one client might say, actually, I absolutely loved that. Come and work on staff for us.
[00:46:35] So it's, you know, it's, it's trusting in the forward motion. But I understand that, you know, when you are sort of in this kind of bobbing around in the middle of the ocean, in which direction is the safe harbor, it can feel, you know, very dis you know, discombobulating. But I guess what I would, what I would offer to you is to, is to really hang on to the talent that you have.
[00:47:00] Trust that there's a place for this new version of Steve in this ai, in this, you know, very fast-paced, 25 year olds running marketing agencies world that we find ourselves in. Um, and nurture that story and, and allow people in, allow people into the story and allow people to see how you write, um, and see where they might find a place for you.
[00:47:25] And I, I'd love Gabe actually just to speak to the whole AI thing because Gabe is definitely of the two of us, the early adopter, whereas I am, I'll adopt that next century. So Gay, would you like to speak to, you know, where AI fits into the creative world a little bit.
[00:47:45] Gabe Ratliff: Oh man. Um, so interestingly, you know, a lot of people thought creative was gonna be the last place where artificial intelligence affected, and it was the first. And honestly, if you think about the time period that we're in, it makes sense because there's so much content getting made and it, it's, people are on this hamster wheel, right?
[00:48:12] Because they feel like I was on it. I've been on it a couple of times and I didn't even realize it, I didn't even realize I was burnout. When my dad got sick, I stopped my podcast, I stopped all the content. I was doing it, I was like, oh my God, I'm burned out. But then I had to go, I couldn't give, give my time to anything else 'cause I was giving it to care, be a caregiver.
[00:48:31] And so, but, but it, it made me realize like, oh gosh, I'm on the hamster wheel again. Shit, take a break. Slow down, you know? And, um, so it makes sense to me because people are trying to crank out so much stuff, whether it's professionally, whether it's as a content creator, you know, whether it's, you know, writing or producing.
[00:48:54] Um, 'cause I was also in the media production world, uh, so I'm very familiar with that as well as, as Jude is. And, you know, it's just like, you're constantly going, right? It's just you're writing, writing, writing, and you're like producing and putting all these things together. And it's just like, go, go, go, go, go.
[00:49:09] And what's the trend? And go this way. Right? And it's exhausting. And so I first of all, like to remind people to slow down, you know, I, we, we just released a blog post about vinyl and AI talking about how to, you know, succeed as a business and not follow the trends, but your values. And so AI is a thing.
[00:49:33] It's here, but it's a tool. It's just like Grammarly or Photoshop. It's a tool. It doesn't have to be the, I mean, yes, it's gonna make a big impact. It's making a big impact. It's also a big trend right now. People are talking about it. It's just a big thing people are really excited about. But I was having a conversation with some people recently that are much older than me and have seen a lot more than me, and they were like, you know what, this still doesn't hold a candle to the space race in the sixties. And I thought that was such a fascinating thing. So we kind of dove into it and I was like, ah, talk to me about that. And they were just like, yeah, the entire world was focused on the space race, right? 'cause we were trying to get to the moon and everything and it was, and it was U s A and Russia. It is back and forth, right?
[00:50:22] And, and they were like, yeah, this AI stuff. Like there's still people that don't even have an idea of what it is. Because they're so, they're, they're so disconnected from it. So I think it is a thing. Um, it's there, it's a tool. Some people are jumping into it a lot of business, but it's like everything, it's like the NFTs, right?
[00:50:41] It's like crypto, it's like all that stuff. People jumped in. But that, but, but I didn't jump into crypto, but it didn't mean I didn't miss anything. You know what I mean? I didn't miss anything. 'cause there's still like, real estate is still the best way to invest. You know? There's like, it's like there's still oldies be goldies and that's part of what that blog post was about with vinyl was like vinyl is beating CDs again after 30 years of getting, you know, ousted from digital music.
[00:51:08] And it really affected the music industry in huge, massive ways. And here we are 30 years later and it's back and it's bigger than ever and it's actually dominating other sales. So I just, I think it's interesting to kind of, um, step back from it all. And never at, at least from what we can tell so far, it's not gonna ever be able to provide all of what Steve can provide, right?
[00:51:38] Because there's so much to your journey. There's so much like, you know, about broadcast social, right? You know, about, uh, addiction and recovery, you know, about suicide and depression, you know, about writer's block. Like, you know about all of these things on a personal and professional level. And you can accommodate that.
[00:52:01] You can, you know, you get to pull all of that in because your journey is uniquely yours and nobody else ever on the planet in the history of time, right? So that it's, and that's, so I, for some reason this came up and I was like, I really wanna share this, but like, I have a tattoo with a Compass Rose and the North points to me, I.
[00:52:21] And it's something I love to remind people about is that you are your North star. And no matter what all this other shit is out there that's like trendy and popular and like, there's a lot of people that are really frightened about a AI and how it's gonna affect their careers. And if you really focus on what your values are, what you want to do, what you need to get out, what you need to share, um, who you want to be working with, you know what kind of company I, this was a question I had.
[00:52:48] I wanna kind of bring it back, um, to some questions I had. But it's like, I was thinking about, like you said, I wanna write something that could help someone in a spot where they're feeling alone or coping with addiction and recovery. That was what I heard. And then you were talking about writing a story for your younger self.
[00:53:04] And I thought, wow, as Jude said, what an amazing fucking story. And then I started to think, well, how would he write this? Would this be a murder mystery? Could it be a supernatural story, right? Because if you think about Stephen King, you mentioned Stephen King. I'm also, I love Stephen. I mean, he's like one of the best writers ever.
[00:53:25] Um, and he gets into family dark issues, right? If you think about like Dolores Clayborne or all kinds of stuff, right? There's like several stories that are very personal, very personal, but he's telling it through a fictional tale, right? And so I started to think, well, what if you could write something from a fictional context, but where you can tell the story to your younger self so that a younger person can read your story?
[00:53:56] Like, uh, JK Rowling and Harry Potter, right? That's a supernatural murder mystery in some ways, right? When you think about it, like, Dumbledore, all these things, if you guys don't know Dumbledore dies at this point. I don't know what to say. So, you know, there's all kinds of things in that, right? But that's, that's so personal.
[00:54:16] She wrote that on a train as a single mother. Right. And she's like one of the most richest people in England, even richer than the Queen I thought at some point, or she was close or something. I don't, I remember hearing that. You guys probably know way more than I do about that, but like my point's just that, you know, even she found a way as a single mother to, to tap into that and just let that story unfold.
[00:54:40] Not knowing what was gonna happen with it, right. But to being able to talk about these things that are so personal and so real loss. I mean, he, you know, he loses all of these like, uh, father figures throughout all kinds of stuff that we can all connect with. But I think that's, what's it, what I was hearing is, it's really interesting is like if you love these things and then you love these things and then you've gone through these things, how can they all maybe connect?
[00:55:05] And maybe some things need to be separate, but maybe, maybe not. Maybe you can approach this in a way where it's this wonderful trifecta where you get to enjoy the journey and you get to like really help some people through a great story. Because you said at the very top of our conversation, I love a great story.
[00:55:26] I love good story structure. So if you are that devout to it, share that brother. You know, share, share that knowledge, like share that, share those things that can connect with people in a way that can move them, you know? And to actually feel seen and not alone. Right. And that's why I got excited. I.
[00:55:48] Steve Saul: I, that's really inspiring. I will, I will do. Thank you. Thanks Kate.
[00:55:53] Jude Schweppe: So before we wrap up, Steve, um, we always say to our guests at the end, what actions would you like to commit to in the next couple of weeks? What's up for you in this conversation?
[00:56:07] Steve Saul: I will, I'm trying to remember, I didn't have a pen and paper, but, um, obviously the portfolio for professional and creative. Uh, LinkedIn. I will try to do the, the morning LinkedIn post after the shower. That, that sounds like a good idea. And I really, I will have a think about, um, yeah. Writing something maybe for the younger Steve who, uh, didn't feel, always felt a little bit apart from everything.
[00:56:38] Uh, yeah. Yeah, that's a really inspiring idea and I can picture where it is. So that's really fun. I've had a picture of what, where that might take place. So yeah. So that, that's what I'll do. And I think I might divide the week up into, that's today, that's the day. And you know, these two, this evening is dedicated to, uh, story, uh, brain story, uh, outlining maybe a story, uh, that like in the manner you suggested Gabe, that sort of something with a fantastical element, but about Yeah.
[00:57:12] That experience of. Having a very different head at school, so yeah. Okay. Okay, great.
[00:57:19] Jude Schweppe: Brilliant. And if I could ask you to share what's one key insight you're taking away from your conversation?
[00:57:29] Steve Saul: Um, feel like to have, just to have the courage of, to get myself confidence back, just to get the courage back, to kind of get into the routine that I have kind of got something to say, um, in a real way rather than, um, a sort of posturing way I suppose. I, there's, I see you do. That's the kind of insight is like, yes, just go for it.
[00:57:56] Rather than thinking of a thousand reasons not to do it, just get stuck in and I have got a voice worth listening to. I suppose so. Or with something to say worth listening to.
[00:58:08] Jude Schweppe: Yeah, humble steps, Steve,
[00:58:10] Steve Saul: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:58:12] Jude Schweppe: you know, just, just allowing yourself to tiptoe in, not feel overwhelmed and build your confidence from there. And I always say to, you know, to creative clients, you're, you're building your creativity muscle. You've already got a creativity muscle. It just maybe hasn't been worked out.
[00:58:29] You haven't been down the creativity gym for a while. So it's just, you know, it's just about rebuilding that muscle in a way that reminds you of what you've got. 'cause it's already there. It's already there. You've already got that talent. And you know about nurturing it out again and sharing it with the world in a way that feels truthful and honest and authentic, and fundamentally just tells a bloody good story,
[00:58:56] Gabe Ratliff: Mm-hmm.
[00:58:57] Steve Saul: Yes,
[00:58:57] Jude Schweppe: which is what you're all about.
[00:58:59] Steve Saul: yes. That's
[00:59:01] Gabe Ratliff: And as I was saying about the hamster wheel, doing it in a way that's enough. You know, like I, we constantly are talking to clients and they're just, it, they just, you can feel the pressure, you can feel it. We can feel it. No matter how many thousand miles we're apart, you can feel this. Like, I have to more, I have to more, better, faster, you know?
[00:59:23] Uh, it's like daft punk, stronger, better, you know? It's like this, just like go.
[00:59:28] Steve Saul: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:59:29] Gabe Ratliff: it doesn't, it's, it's, it's one of the best things I've learned as I was talking about my journey. Um, because I also kind of, uh, um, doubled down on my like fitness and, and, and nutrition as well as this stopping drinking. And in that practice, what, 'cause I, I just, I.
[00:59:51] I, I really don't like to work out. I didn't, I didn't like to work out. Who does? Nobody like likes to work out. Some people, I mean, they may like it, but nobody loves it. Right? Because there's some days you just don't feel like it. Even my coach, he says it, he says like, not every day, even though this is like my business.
[01:00:07] And having that permission, like hearing someone who's like, this is what I do, but I don't love it. I don't like love, like, Hey, I'm gonna go like, hurt my body so that I get stronger. You know?
[01:00:18] Steve Saul: Yeah.
[01:00:19] Gabe Ratliff: And where it's created this space is that like I don't ever regret doing it. I regret not, and it's the same. I, I find that it applies in the same thing with less coaching with whatever it might be, right?
[01:00:39] Whether it is working out, whatever's the thing, it's just the tracking. That's been the biggest thing. Tracking I. What we do, like track. Whether it's like I track my food, right? And it's the same. We track our coaching, we track our, you know, tracking, writing, how much did I write? What did I do? You know? And just that way you can look back at the end of the week and go fuck sake, look how much I wrote.
[01:00:59] You know, it, you know, or you can go, ah, I didn't get as much this week, but I wrote, okay, cool. Right? And as, as opposed to this like, oh, I gotta start all over. Right? It's, it's the long game. It's a long game. It's this consistent thing. And that healthy habit is about just showing up, just giving yourself the space.
[01:01:20] 'cause it's what you want, right? You, you have lit up so much every time you're talking about writing or sharing stories or good structure or pop culture and related to story, right? Like you lit up. And so if that's how your body is showing up and you give yourself that space regularly, just imagine how great you'll feel, right?
[01:01:41] And how not feeling lost and not feeling out of place, or feeling out of touch. And you're also gonna be sharing, you're gonna be sharing your story however that plays out, like whatever those stories are. And then other people can go, oh my gosh. And they're gonna come to you, right? And they're gonna say, would you like to write for us?
[01:02:00] Or are you looking for clients right now? Or, you never know what's gonna come, right? Hey, would, are you writing a book? Would you like to write a book? Because we love the way you, you know what I mean? You never know what's gonna come out of it just by doing what you already love doing. So I, I just wanted to share that because like, it's been such an, uh, an interesting byproduct of like that separate change for me to see how that applies in the professional world.
[01:02:26] Because it feels this like ominous, crazy. I get it, man. I get that like feeling of just, it's not like I'm not enough and this is not enough and I've been out of it and I disconnected and you got AI and all this stuff, right? And it starts to get really fucking, excuse me, uh, overwhelming. And um, you know, and I kind of ramp up there to give that drama, but it does feel that way inside.
[01:02:50] And so I just also wanted to share that you, it's, it's up to you, it's your cadence, but it's all about doing, you know, what feels good for you that you can build on as opposed to, you know, 'cause I believe you said at the top, and then I'll wrap up here, but I, I thought you said at the top something about two to three pieces a week.
[01:03:08] Steve Saul: Yeah.
[01:03:08] Gabe Ratliff: feel comfortable to you as far as like where you feel like that's a sense of ease or does that feel like
[01:03:15] Steve Saul: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think when, when I, when I do write, it happens pretty quickly and, you know, like I'm, I, I, it's usually pretty good. Like it's not, do you know what I mean? I'm not, I'm fairly confident I could do three pieces a week and they would be worthy of putting out there, you know, so, um, yeah. Yeah.
[01:03:36] That, yeah. That could, that could be done.
[01:03:38] Gabe Ratliff: So what if, what if we said in this as we're talking about homework, what if we said, you know, over the next couple weeks that you just write two pieces, so four pieces over the next two weeks, so then there's a little less pressure. And then because you said I feel fairly confident for three, but I imagine you feel pretty confident
[01:03:57] Steve Saul: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
[01:03:59] Gabe Ratliff: Does that feel better?
[01:04:01] Steve Saul: Yeah. Much better. Actually, there's a weight off my shoulders already on that one, so to speak. Yeah. Okay, great. Great.
[01:04:07] Gabe Ratliff: So that's what I'm talking about, right? Setting that. That's why I wanted to do like an actual tangible ex example. Because if you say three, I feel fairly, but then we say, well, how about two, give yourself that permission. Then you go, okay, so then that's eight pieces a month. How does that feel?
[01:04:25] Steve Saul: That's great. Eight sounds fan. It is a great number to have at the end of the month, isn't it? Yeah, eight
[01:04:30] Gabe Ratliff: And then you think about, what's that across the year? Right? Like that's, then you're starting to get exponential. And that's what I'm talking about. That's the long game. As opposed to, I've gotta write so much. That's what I'm talking about, the hamster wheel, right? It's like, oh, I gotta write so much this week.
[01:04:42] 'cause I'm gonna get lost in the noise. No, brother, you're not, you're not.
[01:04:49] Steve Saul: very, thank you. That's really reassuring. And uh, yeah, the hamster wheel, I really, really understand that feeling. 'cause uh, when I started out on social media, it wasn't. There was Twitter and Facebook, and that was it. And now it's like a universe that needs populating all the times. Gary Vaynerchuk's.
[01:05:08] Uh, so is it 40, 80 pieces of content a day? For most brands, you're like, how on earth is that?
[01:05:14] Gabe Ratliff: We are the anti that
[01:05:17] Jude Schweppe: yeah.
[01:05:18] Steve Saul: right,
[01:05:18] Gabe Ratliff: we're going the other direction. We're saying, you know what, fuck all that. If you if, because like, what do they say to do? Like whatever everybody's doing, go the other direction. And that's exactly what we're such advocates for is, hey, just pick one,
[01:05:33] Steve Saul: Yeah.
[01:05:34] Gabe Ratliff: but get it done. Like get the two done a week and then get two done the next week.
[01:05:39] And then you can look back and go, holy shit, I did it. And then keep going. Right? And then when you feel comfortable, go to three.
[01:05:46] Steve Saul: Yeah.
[01:05:46] Gabe Ratliff: you've, you've established the habit and you're like, I can do this. I'm good. People are liking what I'm saying. Right? And then you started to establish your own social proof.
[01:05:55] And that's the thing that I, I dig, I dig Gary, I dig what he's doing and he, I, I dig that he's also coming from a very real place about like, Hey, let's start with compassion first. Instead of like, burnout. And like the, the, what is it? The, the hustle, right? Which used to be what everybody thought, hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle.
[01:06:13] And he is like, no, no. You got, you gotta be compassionate with yourself too, bro. You know? And so I I, we are also very much advocates for that of like, Hey, do, do what is enough?
[01:06:24] Steve Saul: yeah. I will, I will. That's a,
[01:06:27] Gabe Ratliff: And that's it.
[01:06:28] Steve Saul: yeah.
[01:06:28] Gabe Ratliff: That's
[01:06:29] Jude Schweppe: Share
[01:06:30] Gabe Ratliff: And share, yeah. And share. Share the journey.
[01:06:33] Steve Saul: Do you know I was, I think part of the past is being such a, like a, I've heard it is called like an, um, an egomaniac with an inferiority complex, and there's such a part of persona. The way I was, that I feel like such a fraud now. You know? Like it's, it's, it is hard to reconcile all that with what in my head, people are expecting from me if you know from what, from the person they knew a long time ago. So, um, but you know, I'm still friends with most, the best people I know, so I'm very lucky in that respect. Um, yeah. Yeah. So, um, but I, I think it's really helped me, uh, you've both helped me really understand where I'm at and how to maybe get beyond it now. So that's, I'm gonna, I have to do it. I have to, action is key, isn't it?
[01:07:28] So,
[01:07:29] Jude Schweppe: action is key. And you know, this is a new chapter for you, Steve. And just write it word by word,
[01:07:35] Steve Saul: Great. Yeah. Okay. I will do,
[01:07:39] Jude Schweppe: amazing. And keep in touch and we'll be following you on LinkedIn. Love, you know, love to, to see what you tip toe out onto LinkedIn with. Um, and let us know how you get on.
[01:07:50] Steve Saul: Fantastic. Thank you for speaking with me. Thank you for taking the time and, uh, having
[01:07:54] Jude Schweppe: pleasure. It's been, it's been a privilege to hear your story, Steve, and we are rooting for you and really excited to see how things unfold for you for the rest of the year. So thank you so much for being
[01:08:05] Steve Saul: thank you. Thank you. I'll, I'll keep in touch.
[01:08:08] Jude Schweppe: And that brings us to the end of another episode of The Artful Experience,
[01:08:17] Gabe Ratliff: whether you're a first time listener or a diehard fan. We want to thank you for being here.
[01:08:22] Jude Schweppe: We hope you enjoyed today's show and got loads of value from the conversation.
[01:08:27] Gabe Ratliff: And hey, if you're itching for more, don't worry. You can find all the juicy links in show notes for this episode at theartful.co.
[01:08:34] Jude Schweppe: But before you go, we have a little favor to ask If you haven't already, please hit that subscribe button and leave a rating or review wherever you get your podcast fixed. And do tune in for our next episode.
[01:08:47] Gabe Ratliff: Your support means the world to us, and it helps us reach even more amazing artful entrepreneurs out there like you.
[01:08:54] Jude Schweppe: Thanks again for joining us. We appreciate every single one of you.
[01:08:58] Gabe Ratliff: Until next time, keep unleashing your creative genius and stay artful.
