108: Kelli Oberndorf

Click the icon in the bottom of the player to share, subscribe, and access all the platforms where available.

About This Episode

Today, we follow Kelli Oberndorf's transformative journey from being laid off to launching her own purpose-driven business. With a passion for human-centered practices, Kelli seeks alignment, stability, and contribution to organizations. Partnering with a collaborator, she faces fears and doubts while forging her heart's path. Through introspection and visualization, we uncover Kelli's ambitions, her desire for stability, and her commitment to empowering leaders.

About Our Guest

Kelli believes that building community within an organization is one of the most important things a company can focus on. Not only does focusing on the internal community within a company strengthen the internal culture within the organization, but it also builds trust and authenticity. Kelli firmly believes that creating a culture of kindness improves employee satisfaction, staff retention, and communication within an organization.

Kelli brings her 20-year expertise in leadership, interpersonal dynamics, conflict resolution, and team facilitation to help organizations strengthen their culture and increase the joy and fulfillment in the work they do in the world. Learn more about Kelli here

Subscribe and review on iTunes

Are you subscribed to our podcast? If you’re not, we invite you to do that today. We don’t want you to miss an episode. Click here to subscribe on iTunes!

And if you’re digging the show, we would be really grateful if you left us a review on iTunes too. Reviews help other people find our podcast and they’re fun to read. Just click here to review, select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review” and let us know what your favorite part of the podcast is or what came up for you during the show. Thank you!

Do you prefer to listen to podcasts on Spotify? If so, you can click here to follow us on Spotify instead!

• Transcript

  TAE-108-Kelli Oberndorf

  ===

  [00:00:00] Jude Schweppe: Hi there. I'm Jude Schweppe.

  [00:00:04] Gabe Ratliff: And I'm Gabe Ratliff.

  [00:00:05] Jude Schweppe: Welcome to the Artful Experience where we have conversations with creative entrepreneurs and business owners, giving them as much support and value as we can pack into 60 minutes.

  [00:00:15] Gabe Ratliff: So tell us what's been keeping you up at night? What's been nagging at you?

  [00:00:20] Jude Schweppe: What challenges are you facing in your business that you could use some outside perspective on?

  [00:00:25] Gabe Ratliff: Maybe you've got an amazing idea. But you're not sure how to bring it to life. We are here to help

  [00:00:31] Jude Schweppe: you bring the topic and we'll bring the ideas.

  [00:00:34] Gabe Ratliff: Our goal is to give you clarity on your chosen topic and some exciting ideas that you can start implementing right away.

  [00:00:45] Today, we follow Kelli Oberndorf's transformative journey from being laid off to launching her own purpose driven business. With a passion for human centered practices, Kelli seeks alignment, stability, and contribution to organizations. Partnering with a collaborator, she faces fears and doubts while forging her heart's path. Through introspection and visualization, we uncover Kelli's ambitions, her desire for stability, and her commitment to empowering leaders.

  [00:01:19] Jude Schweppe: Kelli, welcome to the Artful Experience. Thank you so much for joining us.

  [00:01:24] Kelli Oberndorf: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

  [00:01:26] Jude Schweppe: Pleasure. Absolute pleasure. So can you tell us today what the topic is? What are we going to be diving into with you?

  [00:01:36] Kelli Oberndorf: Um, yeah, so I, I am launching a business and, um, I am just, you know, wanting a little coaching around Oh, launching a successful purpose driven business and yeah, curious what this experience will be like and excited to get started.

  [00:01:58] Jude Schweppe: Okay. Just to see what unfolds in the era that we have together. Brilliant. So what feels really important about this for you? What are the stakes?

  [00:02:08] Kelli Oberndorf: Well, the stakes are pretty high. I've been working with a company for almost a year and unfortunately getting laid off from them. And, um, before that I was starting to, uh, build my, my own business, my independent business. Um, and then, you know, for a variety of different reasons, decided to become an employee and now I'm back into, um, building an independent business and, um, and working with partner.

  [00:02:37] Um, and just, yeah, I think what's important is, is that. There's like a positive energy that's moving forward even though there's, you know, fear of course with starting a business. I know you both know exactly what that's like and you know, kind of the balance between obviously losing like a security and income and such and such, but also like really being drawn to what's like in my heart and what I wanna bring forth to the world.

  [00:03:08] And so just like staying aligned with that so that when those fears come forward, that I'm able to actually just like acknowledge them and move forward and really continue to stay focused on, on, um, know building a successful business that, that speaks to my heart and also like contributes and creates value for the people that I work with.

  [00:03:32] Jude Schweppe: Hmm. So you've used the word heart twice now, so you are clearly a heart-centered person and having a business that has your heart at its center is important to you. So can you expand a little bit on what's in your heart?

  [00:03:49] Kelli Oberndorf: Hmm. Well, it took me a long time to find it actually. I, I was in like management, leadership and healthcare for a really long time, and it was just not a fit. It wasn't a match. And so when I left that career, it took a little while to like uncover what, what it was that I really wanted to do, and also drawing in, excuse me, all my experience from my past.

  [00:04:16] So not to discount what I've done and what's led me here to this moment in my life. And I, I made a pact. I made a promise to myself that I would do what I love

  [00:04:29] Jude Schweppe: mm.

  [00:04:30] Kelli Oberndorf: that's really important to me. That I feel inspired. I do a lot of my personal work through my, my occupation. Been sometimes really challenging to have the majority of my personal growth be within my career.

  [00:04:46] 'cause that can get tricky at times. Um, so I think what's really important is, is that I stay connected to that, that part of myself that has that desire to desire, contribute to others. And, um, yeah, so that's what I was,

  [00:05:06] Jude Schweppe: Hmm. And in what way would you like to contribute and who would you like to contribute to?

  [00:05:13] Kelli Oberndorf: yeah, so primarily organizations, leaders, um, other types of, you know, just employees in general, but to bring more human centered practices into businesses so that they focus on not only what, what success looks like in a traditional business sense, which is, you know, sustaining a, a, a successful business model and, you know, growing their, their, um, Stability in their, in their industry, but also, but really focusing on, uh, kind of pe people first perspective.

  [00:05:47] What actually motivates employees? How do you support leaders? How do you build their confidence, their self-confidence? Um, and how do you create a culture that is an elevating culture for employees to live, to, to be a part of? And, um, especially now, like retention is such an important thing, uh, to, to many organizations, they're starting to turn their perspective to retaining staff, right?

  [00:06:14] Because there's not so, so many of them available these days and people are leaving for all sorts of reasons, not a lease of all money. So, um, you know, what they're really looking for is, is a company that they feel respected, that their voice is heard, that they are able to, um, create stability in their life.

  [00:06:35] But they want it, they want it to be. Centered around who they are individually. And I think there's this idea of both the individual and the collective experience coming together. Um, so like the individual and is, is a contributor, but together, like works better together. And so how do you bring those perspectives into organizations and bring value?

  [00:06:59] Jude Schweppe: Okay. And where would you like to get to by the end of this session?

  [00:07:05] Kelli Oberndorf: Hmm. Good question. I don't know. I'm curious. I'm following curiosity, so I don't, I don't have like an end goal

  [00:07:12] Jude Schweppe: Okay, let's see. Let's see what unfolds as we said. Um, okay, so where are you now with your business, if you would, could describe your, the current state.

  [00:07:25] Kelli Oberndorf: Yeah. So I'm, I'm partnering with somebody in my community to, uh, launch, uh, our new brand. Um, So we're really in the developmental stage, but I wouldn't say we're, we're from, we're not working from zero. So I have a lot of trainings already developed. I have, um, some connections as well. So I'm, I'm not starting from zero by any means, but I would say, um, the, the business itself and the partnership is new.

  [00:07:58] Jude Schweppe: Okay. And what would give you the most confidence, Kelly, in terms of your first contract, your first client, your first, your first big gig out on your own?

  [00:08:17] Kelli Oberndorf: So what would define success or

  [00:08:19] Jude Schweppe: What would give you the confidence to say, I've made the right decision? This is what I'm supposed to be doing. My heart is happy.

  [00:08:27] Kelli Oberndorf: hmm.

  [00:08:31] I would say, I'm really looking for is, uh, working with like a purpose-driven business, so that's aligned with, with what my, uh, company is and, um, also like open maybe a bit progressive and really being curious around how to create an environment for employees to, to thrive in. And so I would say that open-mindedness and willingness to look at themselves in a, and bring more of a curious perspective to, um, their organization and, um, be interested in what I do, the trainings I do around leadership and creating, uh, more of a, a coaching skillset for the leaders.

  [00:09:19] And, um, positive conflict resolution strategies, uh, to name just a couple.

  [00:09:27] Jude Schweppe: Okay, so are you up for doing a little bit of role play?

  [00:09:31] Kelli Oberndorf: Sure.

  [00:09:32] Jude Schweppe: Sure. So imagine I am the c e O of one of those companies, and I'm considering bringing in somebody like you, but I'm not really sure what it is that you do, and I'm not really sure the impact that you're gonna have and how it's gonna make my company run more smoothly.

  [00:09:48] You've got five minutes to pitch to me. Off you go on the.

  [00:09:53] Kelli Oberndorf: Okay. The pressure. Okay. Oh gosh. All right, well, um, meeting with me today. I really appreciate your time. Something I'm really passionate about is helping organizations bring more human centered practices into their, their cultures. And the way we do that is, is first by really supporting leaders.

  [00:10:18] So, so much of what we do or what's in this industry is around executive coaching and um, and, and kind of supporting those really top, top level of the, of the, of the organization. And I think that's so important and it is absolutely something that I do. Uh, the other thing I really focus on is supporting those managers who support the employees.

  [00:10:40] Who guide the employees, because when we support those employees or when we support those leaders, we get this opportunity to really develop a culture. And so often we ele we, we promote employees, uh, into leadership roles who are really high performers, and that's awesome. We wanna do that. We wanna promote from within.

  [00:11:01] Uh, there's, there's so many positive benefits that can happen. What, however, a lot of organizations don't give their employee or their leaders or new leaders, uh, support and training, um, and skillset to grow. And what ends up happening when we don't, or one thing that could happen is kind of like a revolving door on those teams.

  [00:11:25] And we kind of scratch our heads, like, why? Why are we, why are we losing employees? Why are we losing leaders? And a lot of times it's because, A leader is, can be really overwhelming. Or even if you're in a leadership position for a while and you don't have that training, um, you know, it can really wear on, on, on leaders and create a lot of pressure.

  [00:11:47] When you actually elevate their skillset and support them through their journey as a leader, what ends up happening is you create stability within your organization and that stability is really what the goal is that I, and the value that I bring, we. Uh, organizations and leaders is to help them grow that skillset so that they're nurturing those relationships on their team, um, as well as interdepartmental as well.

  [00:12:18] Um, so how do we get that more collaborative, um, energy running through the organization and, uh, regardless of the team that you're on, regardless of what your job title is, um, how do you bring that human perspective so that you're really taking in what, what it matters most to your employees and to your leaders.

  [00:12:38] And so my trainings are really designed to bring that value, to increase the skillset to, and, and to create that stability across the organization.

  [00:12:49] Jude Schweppe: Well, it sounds like a no brainer to me, Kelly.

  [00:12:53] Kelli Oberndorf: Well,

  [00:12:55] Jude Schweppe: So how did it feel to say all that?

  [00:12:59] Kelli Oberndorf: It, it actually felt really good and I was, at first I thought I would be a little less clear or maybe stumble through a little bit more, but what I recognized as I was talking was that I was really generating it from a place of knowing and, um, and confidence. I would say I would, I felt rather confident in, in speaking to you about what we do.

  [00:13:26] Jude Schweppe: Yeah, I got that sense for sure. You weren't having to sort of pull things, it was coming to you as you were articulating it, as you say, from a place of the heart.

  [00:13:37] Kelli Oberndorf: Mm-hmm.

  [00:13:38] Jude Schweppe: So who would you be like, who would you like to be having this conversation with?

  [00:13:44] Kelli Oberndorf: Well, the people who could make the decisions for one, because it's one thing to, to tell, you know, a, a leader that this is what you do. It's another thing for the company to actually support it and bring it on. Um, so some, so I would say, you know, whatever, whoever the decision makers are, maybe those are the presidents or the CEOs, um, you know, potentially the hr, our people.

  [00:14:07] Um, so yeah, but probably those, those people, the decision makers in the organization, whoever those might be.

  [00:14:15] Jude Schweppe: Okay. And how do you reach those people?

  [00:14:20] Kelli Oberndorf: Well, you get a business partner who's really good at business development, which is what I, which is what I, uh, the partnership that I'm, that I've created. Um, Yeah, some, you know, my, my skillset is really around the training, right? Is, is training and development facilitation, coaching. That's my background.

  [00:14:41] That's what I do. Um, and what I recognize is, and is something that was missing pre, previously when I was building a business, was that, that those, that I need those complimentary skills, uh, in, in, in, in a partner, so that we're, again, we're like better together. I feel like I've said that a couple of times, but that's really true for me.

  [00:15:01] And I, I don't wanna be in business by myself. And so it's important to me that I align with people who, um, to, who have those complimentary skill sets, but also share that desire to, to bring in those va the value to organizations. Because I don't always have, I mean, I, I haven't ever done business development in my, um, or if I did, it was really kind of shooting in the dark a little bit.

  [00:15:25] Um, and so for me that's, that, that was really important in finding a business partner.

  [00:15:29] Jude Schweppe: Okay, so what if, if business partner is this chunk of the business? What do you fit into it and what are your superpowers and skills?

  [00:15:40] Kelli Oberndorf: I would say in the, the training and development, the curriculum, those are really my, that's my skillset. So it's, you know, being able to get in the door and having those conversations. I, I feel like getting in the door is, is pretty much like most of the battle is like getting in front of these people. Um, and, and then once I am, I feel pretty confident to be able to sell my services and, um, and, and create, uh, an opportunity for the organization.

  [00:16:05] So I would say, you know, my, my skill, my strength starts once I'm in front of the, the leaders or the, the decision makers.

  [00:16:18] Jude Schweppe: Okay. Awesome. Would you be up for doing a little exercise, a little visualization exercise?

  [00:16:26] Kelli Oberndorf: Let's do it.

  [00:16:27] Jude Schweppe: amazing. Let's do it. Um, I'm just gonna turn off my video just because it's sometimes easier for you not to have something staring back in front of you. Um, so we will turn off our videos and I will ask you to just plant your feet really firmly on the floor and feel really connected to the ground and close your eyes if you feel comfortable doing that. And just bringing your awareness into your body and just gently noticing your breath, noticing if you're holding any tension in your body. Again, just really gently breathing into that and just asking your body to let go of that stress and that tension. And anything that you're holding onto that doesn't need to be there. So we're going to do what we call a little movie in your mind, exercise, and you are the star of this movie, and our opening scene takes place 12 months from now. So can you describe where you are 12 months from now? So where you're located, who you're with, what you're doing, what the scene looks like, what the energy is, what's coming up for you?

  [00:18:16] Kelli Oberndorf: the scene as, um, the conference room. I would say the energy is positive, energized,

  [00:18:33] and. Maybe that's not the only conference room that I'm in. Maybe I have multiple conference rooms that I, um, am a part of, um, working with multiple companies.

  [00:18:49] Jude Schweppe: Okay. And who's in your life on a daily basis in your working life On a daily basis?

  [00:18:59] Kelli Oberndorf: I would say, of course, my business partners with me. I would also say, uh, really strong collaborative network, um, supportive, uh, individuals that come together to, um, yeah, just support each other in our, in our pursuits and who meet regularly and whose goal is to, to really create positive energy around each other.

  [00:19:32] Jude Schweppe: Okay. And what are you most excited about when you wake up every morning? It's making you leap outta bed.

  [00:19:39] Kelli Oberndorf: Mm, doing what I love.

  [00:19:42] Jude Schweppe: Mm-hmm.

  [00:19:43] Kelli Oberndorf: really feel like I've found my calling and so it really is doing what I have been doing. But for myself,

  [00:19:53] Jude Schweppe: Yeah.

  [00:19:54] Kelli Oberndorf: for the company,

  [00:19:56] Jude Schweppe: And what impact are you having Kelly?

  [00:20:04] Kelli Oberndorf: I'm having a really positive impact that

  [00:20:11] elevates leaders to really be their most authentic selves and to be able to navigate the challenges of of leadership. And, you know, find new awareness, new confidence

  [00:20:34] Jude Schweppe: And what are you really well known for 12 months from now?

  [00:20:44] Kelli Oberndorf: for my organizational community building

  [00:20:49] Jude Schweppe: Can you elaborate on that a little bit?

  [00:20:51] Kelli Oberndorf: Yeah. To create, um, organizational cultures that are, are rich in developing their leaders, their employees, that building relationships with each other, strong lasting relationships, breaking down interdepartmental silos and really encouraging collaboration and. Being willing to address conflict, but in a way that is positive and professional and productive.

  [00:21:26] Jude Schweppe: Okay. And what are you most proud of having achieved in the previous 12 months?

  [00:21:40] Kelli Oberndorf: Hmm.

  [00:21:49] I would say what I'm most proud of is,

  [00:21:55] I think probably like breaking through my own glass ceiling, you know, and, and continuing to move forward even in the face of challenges. And, um, you know, of course life is up and downs and.

  [00:22:13] Yeah, just is working through those, those fears. Breaking through my own glass ceiling is probably the, the best way I could describe that.

  [00:22:22] Jude Schweppe: Okay, and what are the fears?

  [00:22:27] Kelli Oberndorf: Oh. But I, I won't be successful that, um, you know, both fin like, financially successful, um, that

  [00:22:44] maybe I won't have the growth that I, that I would like. Um, business growth that I would like.

  [00:22:54] Jude Schweppe: Anything else?

  [00:22:58] Kelli Oberndorf: Well, I mean, I think I probably with, with many people have like a, you know, am I good enough question That sort of runs the, the show sometimes, so. I would say, you know, a lot of those fears boil down to that, that particular question or

  [00:23:17] Jude Schweppe: Okay,

  [00:23:18] Kelli Oberndorf: maybe self-limiting belief.

  [00:23:22] Jude Schweppe: so. Imagine again that I'm the c e O of the company that you pitched to, and I ask you a very direct question and I say, Kelly, are you good enough to deliver this to my team because it's really important that I get the right person if I'm making this big investment. Are you good enough?

  [00:23:38] Kelli Oberndorf: absolutely, absolutely.

  [00:23:42] Jude Schweppe: What makes you good enough? Mm-hmm.

  [00:23:47] Kelli Oberndorf: My experience, my, my experience not only as a facilitator and as a coach, but also as a leader myself, and I draw a lot of my, my training, my, my expertise from my past, and so I come. I come with a perspective of, uh, a leader, and I think that makes, makes me relatable. Um, but it also, uh, is really infused in the trainings that I have of, of what, what it takes to be a great leader and, um, and, and I, you know, I'm able to really present that in a way that is palatable to the participants and, um, and helps them, you know, uncover their, their natural abilities and, um, and strengths.

  [00:24:43] Jude Schweppe: Okay. And so if I were to say to you in 12 months time, you will have achieved your big, fat, hairy, audacious goal. What does that look like? Is it a practical thing? Is it how you feel? Is it a mindset thing? What feels like the thing to stretch into over the next 12 months?

  [00:25:24] Kelli Oberndorf: Hmm. This is a harder question for some reason. Um,

  [00:25:35] I.

  [00:25:39] I think, I mean like stability comes to mind.

  [00:25:43] Jude Schweppe: Okay.

  [00:25:43] Kelli Oberndorf: Um

  [00:25:54] hmm. I don't know. That one isn't coming quite as easily.

  [00:25:57] Jude Schweppe: Okay.

  [00:25:58] Kelli Oberndorf: Answer.

  [00:25:59] Jude Schweppe: Are you conscious of what's in the way of the answer?

  [00:26:03] Kelli Oberndorf: No, it just mostly feels a little like a void

  [00:26:07] Jude Schweppe: Avoid. Okay.

  [00:26:10] Kelli Oberndorf: maybe 'cause it's not quite formed yet. Um,

  [00:26:13] Jude Schweppe: Okay.

  [00:26:14] Kelli Oberndorf: potentially

  [00:26:16] Jude Schweppe: Is there anything else coming up? How's your body feeling with this one?

  [00:26:26] Kelli Oberndorf: kind of neutral.

  [00:26:28] Jude Schweppe: Okay. So when you are ready, I'm gonna ask you to just take a big, deep breath and just come back into the space. And we will, I'll start my video again. So this is just what I'm kind of sensing, and Gabe, I'm gonna ask you to kind of jump in here as well, but I'm curious to know why that felt like a difficult question or why the answer wasn't coming to you as easily as some of the other answers have come. Okay. What are your thoughts on that one?

  [00:27:19] Gabe Ratliff: Thanks for your patience, just. Lot of notes.

  [00:27:23] Jude Schweppe: Hmm.

  [00:27:28] Gabe Ratliff: Well, one of the questions that kept coming up for me was around what's deeper, like the clarity around what's deeper. Um, an initial question I had was like, what are the trainings? You know, what are we gonna do? What is the outcome? What, what have you achieved Right. With that experience that you have.

  [00:27:59] The, that's the, the one question that I had really circling throughout a lot of that was just like, I want to get deeper with you. I wanna get deeper with you. I wanna get deeper with you. And then if I was the, the, the leader, um, the. The, the big, hairy, audacious goal for me, what's kind of like screaming in my mind is clarity. Like, I, I love that you immediately said stability and you know, I was sitting this morning and was like, empathizing with you and like really trying to get into your shoes. Right. About like, you've been in this position where you chose to partner with some other folks, right? And you, you've spent the last year building that together and then you've just been recently laid off.

  [00:28:56] And the, just the feeling of like, like you mentioned, like the, am I enough? I'm back on my own, I'm work, I wanna work with a partner. You know, the, the stability, the fear. The kind of a, I've gotten laid off and man, that was actually when I left corporate, and I just, that feeling of like, you're just, uh, it shakes you, right?

  [00:29:21] Like you, you're kind of like, you feel like you're not, um, you don't, bel there's like a feeling of like, I'm, I wasn't meant to be here. Or even though it may have been an external reason, right? Like, and it generally is, it's usually not when you're laid off. Uh, and so again, I'm just, I'm, I'm, I'm, I wanted to advocate for you of like, you know, sitting with like, what it's like to be in that position and then to, and then to be like, okay, now I have to like, solve for this.

  [00:29:52] And at the same time I've figured out my calling. Right? Like, I was hearing you in that space and like that I, it was unshakeable. You're like, I am, I've, I've found my calling. I know what I'm do, I'm, I'm here and I'm, when I'm in the room and I'm doing the work, I bring my experience, I bring my leadership, I bring, I know how to help you with this.

  [00:30:14] I, I have trainings to help you. I heard that. What I was hearing in that, around that void, is that sort of like fuzziness around the clarity of what you are, like answering for yourself what that goal is. Like, what is it that you are working towards now because of that shift in, okay, now I'm back into my thing.

  [00:30:45] And so part of what I was sitting with is like, is this also just you're in transition, right? And it's, you're like stepping back into your own leadership role and stepping back into your own power of this is my thing, right? This is my business that I'm working to. Is that correct or does

  [00:31:06] Kelli Oberndorf: yeah, yeah. I'm definitely in a, in transition, and I, I think you hit on like the clarity is like the clarity's coming, right? But there's a lot of change happening all at once, you know, and to like navigate that with like, you know, the, the disappointment of being laid off, but then also being like, okay, there's, there's a lot of silver lining here.

  [00:31:31] And so then to, to bring like more of a positive perspective to keep my eye on that. And then of course, like fears kind of come in and they're like, you know, I, I don't regret any decision that I've made over the past year, but I do not. Absolutely. I mean, I, I worked with amazing people. I am connected and still plan on, you know, working with them in the future.

  [00:31:58] Um, and so like, as far as the bridge goes, there isn't hard feelings, which is really nice, right? Like, we're, we're really connected. So that's helpful, right? Because it's not like I'm coming to the table like, this happened and then I'm bitter about it or, or something like that. I'm not right. Um, and also like going back a year ago and say, well, what can I do differently now that I didn't do before?

  [00:32:24] And I think a year ago, like I really had that desire to not be in business by myself, right? I don't want to be in business by myself 'cause I am a natural collaborator. So I have to find those ways to continue to collaborate, whether it is with a business partner or with uh, you know, like-minded people.

  [00:32:43] Um, and, and building that network. 'cause it's so important in our industry to do that. And so, I think, yeah, I think probably that void right, is a little in clarity, but I think what's probably is it's just a little overwhelming to like, continue to be like, oh, where am I gonna be in a year? It's like, well, where am I gonna be in a month and a half?

  [00:33:03] know, like, and so I think that's probably more of, you know, if I had some time to write it down and like be like, all right, this is actually what I want. You know, of course I want like strong partners where, you know, there's, there's, uh, leads coming in and I, I'm able to actually even get in the door.

  [00:33:19] Like, that's a goal. That's where I would like to be, and there's some work for me to do to get to that point, which I am in action, which is awesome and, you know, but, um, not that, but, and, um, I think it's hard to tease out some of that, like, to get really specific, um, because I think I'm still, I'm still in like a, a transitional period, right?

  [00:33:48] So it's, um, I would say kind of like a little hard to look that far, even though like as a business person, I should be looking that far and I will, it's, it's not that I won't, I think I'm still like tying up, um, my employment and, um, you know, deciding to move forward. And so there's a lot of like development and transition happening.

  [00:34:12] And I think that for me is like, staying really positive is, is probably the biggest, um, need and sometimes the biggest challenge it to, to be like it's, you know, and I, and I have this knowing even when, when I was, I heard I was gonna get laid off, I was like, you know what? This is okay. It's okay. Like it's gonna work out.

  [00:34:36] So I definitely have a no, like I feel like I have a knowing that like it's gonna work out, um, and, um, and that I am creating different, I'm am taking some different steps than I did before. To help get really aligned and specific. I think though that that's really still in this like formulating time

  [00:34:59] Gabe Ratliff: I have a question, a follow up question if that's okay. So all that being said, right. And understanding that you, you said something that I was really, it, it perked me up 'cause I was like, Hmm. 'cause 'cause you recognize that stepping back into this place, you're the captain again. Right. And you've got a partner to help you with, which is great.

  [00:35:24] Right? Having that business development person, that's amazing. 'cause they help you get in that room where you get to show up with all your power, right? And your, your experience and all the things that you've taken in what you've learned over the last year and all the years before. And what I'm wondering is just to kind of continue with this like exercise, right?

  [00:35:46] Is like, What's that big, hairy, audacious goal? That's your North star, that's like tied to your purpose, right? Because I hear that through and through, right? You, we talk, you're heart-centered, purpose-driven, business owner, and you wanna work with heart-centered, purpose-driven business owners, right? You wanna work with you, you wanna work with people like you.

  [00:36:11] Yeah.

  [00:36:11] Kelli Oberndorf: Sure. Yeah.

  [00:36:12] Gabe Ratliff: Because there's a no, there's a knowing of each other. There's an understanding, there's a communal, like under awareness of each other and like, yeah, we get it. We get it. Like if it's somebody like Yvonne Chouinard of Patagonia, you're like, yep, that would be a great partner to work with, right?

  [00:36:28] Because there's already a knowing of like, there's a commitment to people in planet. So my question is just what are, what is that, what, what are either the one to, to, to however many that come up for you? Um, goals that would like. Make your business fun and effortless and exciting for you.

  [00:36:54] Kelli Oberndorf: Hmm. Yeah. I mean, what, what comes to mind is kind of what you pointed to is just really finding those. Those partners that believe in the mission and like we share, like we're aligned. Like, I guess maybe one thing that I could say is, is that the people that I work with are aligned with, with, with what my mission, our mission is in the organization.

  [00:37:24] And, um, I think that alignment is actually really important to which, which requires me to stay aligned. I, I recognize that, right? Like I have to stay connected, um, to, to that mission and that, that, um, vision in order to draw in who I, who I want a part of the business, right? Because I, I've worked with clients before who, who aren't, right?

  [00:37:54] And, and that, that makes it a lot harder to make an impact. Um, And we're human. So everybody is, comes to the table with their own, uh, their own stuff. But I would say like alignment is incredibly important. So alignment with my business partner, alignment with our clients, um, alignment with our goals, which are clearly still being developed.

  [00:38:17] Um, and so I would, I would say like my measure of success would be that I have multiple partners, multiple organizations that have hired me, that are aligned with, that our missions align with one another. Um, and that, um, that they truly want to see their culture become more elevated through this culture work, which for me starts with those, those leadership that lead those leaders.

  [00:38:53] Gabe Ratliff: Yeah. Now what to, to kind of paint the picture for, you know, say Jude, is this leader still? Yeah. What is that outcome? Paint that possibility. doing this work, what is that possibility that you create for them with the culture and say, you're aligned, right? Say she, 'cause we are, right? So she's aligned, you're doing the work and Yeah, there's people involved.

  [00:39:21] There's a lot of messy work, right? It's messy, it's not easy. And a lot of, there's a lot of resistance. Not everybody on the team is gonna wanna do it, right? There's this difficulty, this is, this is selling the invisible, as rich Litvin says, right? We're, we're selling this invisible thing, so paint that possibility.

  [00:39:38] What is it that this outcome brings for them? What have you seen in your experience of these trainings for people?

  [00:39:48] Kelli Oberndorf: I think the biggest is, Building genuine, authentic relationships because we can really, I think we do a lot of othering, especially in the work environment. Oh, it's that team, it's that person. It's, and we can, and it creates these walls in between us and others, and we have to work to break down those walls if we're actually gonna be building relationships.

  [00:40:14] I have to be able to see myself in you, and you have to be able to see yourself in me and I, and I think through the, through the programming that we created, um, there is this amazing opportunity that is available for us to see our own humanity in each other. And I think you're right, that is a bit of an invisibility, but I think what it looks like is that, um, I.

  [00:40:42] Rather than othering somebody. Oh, it's that department. It's that, that, you know, they're always like this or they're never like that. And we create these more like, uh, you know, judgments or assumptions. So releasing those, or at least bringing those walls down enough so that you and I can become related with one another.

  [00:41:05] Right. And so instead of me saying, oh yeah, that's, uh, that's Jude, it's a department, or, or, or that's, you know, she works over there and I, you know, I can't, I don't know, it's just they're always like that. I'd be like, Hey Jude, I have a question for you. Um, can we talk about this? Um, now I, I see now I know who you are, right?

  [00:41:28] I, I, I have some relationship with you and I think it really is based in building those relationships, is, is one of the only ways I, I have seen, um, those walls be able to come down is, is to, to be able to build those relationships. So that, to me is like a real value. It's like really important that, um, that, that shows up because then once we're related, then we can work through things.

  [00:41:54] Right now, I can work through conflict with you. Um, and now with, with the, with the, uh, the, the systems that, that I will teach, that I'll bring in the models and such. Now those are more accessible because I don't see you as a job title or a department. I see you as a person who's really like, who also struggles and who also has challenges and.

  [00:42:19] Um, and so that's, that's like the walls that I really see are possible to bring down. And I've seen them come down. It's actually really inspiring to see these interdepartmental leaders come together and actually be like, wow, I didn't, I didn't know you before this, but now I'm gonna pick up the phone.

  [00:42:37] It's like, that to me is like a win, you know, that's a huge, huge win. Um, to, to build, yeah. To, to see each other in that way.

  [00:42:48] Gabe Ratliff: I have a follow up question to that. So then what does that tangibly bring to the company? Right? Like what is that outcome then by this outcome of the work for the team itself?

  [00:43:03] Kelli Oberndorf: Well, the biggest thing is, is that we're not just a bunch of individuals. That we actually are individuals who are contributing and collaborating, um, to solve problems for the organization. Um, A lot of times we can get in ruts, we have these old, outdated work scenarios or, or workflows. Um, we get in these like maybe we just like discern too much, we can ever make decisions or we think we do and we, the communication isn't quite right.

  [00:43:34] So, you know, we have these, like, miscommunication is like probably one of the biggest reasons why relationships fall apart, if not the biggest reason, um, regardless of what relationship we're talking about. Um, and so I don't know if that answered your question, Gabe, but, um, I would say what's, what's possible is, is like a more, like a, a deeper relationship dissolving problems, right?

  [00:43:58] We're not shying away from those, that we're actually addressing them, that we're working through them and that we have the tools necessary to be able to, to navigate those complexities, uh, whether it's leadership or business complexities. Um, Growth, whatever those complexities are that we actually can bring in those tools.

  [00:44:18] We have those tools now, and we've created the relationship so that collaboration becomes a little more accessible than it is when we're just a bunch of individuals coming to work.

  [00:44:30] Jude Schweppe: So you are helping join the people dots

  [00:44:34] Kelli Oberndorf: Yeah.

  [00:44:37] Jude Schweppe: and join them in so many different ways, you know, in their thinking, in their communication, in how they view one another. And it is, it's, it's, it's going to levels that we don't often have the time to go to in our, you know, in our employment. And that we don't necessarily always think are priorities, but work on joining those human dots and everything changes and has the potential to change if it's okay.

  [00:45:05] Kelly, I just wanna bring you back to something that you said, which was how important it is for you to stay aligned. To this thinking and to this mission and to your heart and where your heart is with all of this. So what would you like to do to make sure that you are staying aligned to your mission?

  [00:45:31] Kelli Oberndorf: I, I would go back to the, the community of like my own, my own community of, um, of support. Because I think when we have community and we're, we're engaging in that, then we can, we have space rather than like, it keeping in my mind and looping that I can actually reach out, say, Hey, I'm struggling with this, or I bring it to the group and say, Hey, like this is something I'm, I.

  [00:46:00] I don't, I don't know where to go. I don't know what to, I don't know how to, to handle this challenge. Community, please show up for me in this way and I will do the same as well. And I think for me, that's huge. 'cause I, I think the worst thing that I could do is isolate myself because that, that isn't becoming where I'm aligning myself with my low self-confidence rather than, um, you know, have help, you know, engaging with a community of people that actually see my greatness and who are committed to actually seeing me get back aligned with that.

  [00:46:35] And that they know that that's reciprocated. And I think to me that's like really important because we all, we all have, we can all get into that self-conscious or I'm not good enough and to be like, Hey, Gabe, I'm feeling not good enough right now. Or, Hey Jude, like I, you know,

  [00:46:51] Jude Schweppe: Hmm.

  [00:46:51] Kelli Oberndorf: help. You know, and, and I think that's the power of.

  [00:46:59] Aligning yourself with, with those who also wanna see like who need that and also wanna to contribute that. So I would say that's probably my biggest, um, need maybe or, um, desire to continue to connect with that community. Yeah.

  [00:47:19] Jude Schweppe: Yeah. I love that. Surrounding yourself with people who see your greatness, and I think everybody in business can relate to that because it's really hard for us to see our own greatness. So gonna put that question to you. How easy is it for you to see your own greatness?

  [00:47:41] Kelli Oberndorf: I mean, it ebbs and flows. So, I mean, I think I'm more connected to it because I feel like I've found what I wanna do and I felt what I'm really good at and I found what energizes me, and I have now experience in that. And I've got, I. Trainings to back that up. So like, I, I feel more connected to that. I think, I think where it gets gray is

  [00:48:11] I, I like wanna achieve something, but I don't necessarily know how. Right. I don't, I don't have the pathway yet and I haven't like, exercised that muscle of like learning it and practicing it. And I would say, you know, business development is like, that part that's always a little bit alluding, right? It's, it's like I'm a creator, I'm facilitator, I, I can be in a room of VPs and like navigate a conflict with them.

  [00:48:39] Um, and, but when it comes to like building my own right, that's been, that's always been a little bit of a block for me. Um, and so then I can get like paralyzed and so it's sort of like, because I don't know it. Maybe in my mind I sort of separate myself like, oh, well I'm good at this, but am I good enough to have a successful business in an industry that's quite saturated?

  [00:49:04] You know, it's really not the only one doing this work. Um, and so, you know, to let that doubt start to creep in, I think that's really where, um, I start to lose that connection to the, to my greatness because maybe it's just like, rather than being like, I don't know how to do this. Let me figure it out. I'm like, oh shit, I don't know how to do this.

  [00:49:26] Jude Schweppe: Yeah.

  [00:49:27] Kelli Oberndorf: And there's like a pulling back rather than like a leaning in.

  [00:49:31] Jude Schweppe: Yeah. So I'm gonna put this to you and you can say, no, that's not a goal, Jude. Um, it feels as though what might be a useful goal is to get clear on that roadmap.

  [00:49:46] Kelli Oberndorf: Hmm.

  [00:49:47] Jude Schweppe: So to have, it's, it feels to me as though you've got real clarity around your skillset. Real, you spoke so eloquently about the impact of the work on the individual, on the organization, on the team.

  [00:49:59] So it feels like there's a lot of clarity around that. But the root map to how you get into the room with however many companies you wanna be working with in 12 months time, that's where there's a little bit of fuzziness. And the pathway doesn't seem as clear or it's a bit, there are many, too many brambles, there's a few potholes.

  [00:50:19] So it's about like clearing that pathway so that it gives you the confidence to know that you're on your way. So,

  [00:50:29] Kelli Oberndorf: I see that too.

  [00:50:30] Jude Schweppe: yeah. So what would help you clear that pathway?

  [00:50:41] Kelli Oberndorf: Well, I think it has to include my business partner. So, um, you know, it's, Aligning our, our business model. Actually, it's funny 'cause that's what our goal is for tomorrow, is to actually really align with our business model and get really clear on it. So I feel like clarity is coming. Um, it's sort of, it's on the horizon.

  [00:51:01] Um, at least a, a potential path forward of okay,

  [00:51:05] Jude Schweppe: Mm-hmm.

  [00:51:05] Kelli Oberndorf: where our ideal partners, what, how are we bringing folks in? Um, and what is, like you said, what is our goal? What is, where do we wanna be? I think it's a great question. Where are we gonna be in, in 12 months time? Um,

  [00:51:21] Jude Schweppe: If we were to look at that pathway, 12 months time is, is kind of the first destination, let's say. But along the way, you're gonna have milestones. You're gonna be okay. So this is where we wanna get to first. And you know, we've, we've plotted the route into a navigation system. So we're gonna take a break here, or we're gonna rest here, and we're gonna look around at the view.

  [00:51:42] So what would that first milestone or rest stop be where you think, okay, this is good. We've reached the first point.

  [00:51:53] Kelli Oberndorf: I mean, I would say like even regardless of how big the client is, that there is actually like a job, I feel like that's like a first, like a contract that like all the pre-work, the logo, the business, the website, the, you know, all of those things are, you know, and then we're actually like bringing in a client.

  [00:52:14] Um,

  [00:52:16] Jude Schweppe: Okay.

  [00:52:16] Kelli Oberndorf: so.

  [00:52:17] Jude Schweppe: And so the first part of plotting that out is working backwards from we've won our first client and what are all the steps involved that are gonna get us to there? And as Gabe and I continually say to everybody that we speak to, how can we do this in a radically simple but really effective way?

  [00:52:38] And how can we do it not with minimum effort, but with effort that is. Really impactful so that we're not spinning plates, we're not running around, you know, burning energy on things that aren't moving us in the right direction.

  [00:52:51] Kelli Oberndorf: Mm-hmm.

  [00:52:52] Jude Schweppe: So I, I have a little bit of a, a, a homework challenge for you if you're up for that.

  [00:52:56] So you said that you were gonna speak to your business partner tomorrow

  [00:53:01] Kelli Oberndorf: Mm-hmm.

  [00:53:02] Jude Schweppe: to get clear on the business model. So could we challenge you to work back from, you've lifted the glass of champagne together because you've just signed your first client and have a think about all the steps that are involved in getting to that point

  [00:53:20] Kelli Oberndorf: Mm-hmm.

  [00:53:20] Jude Schweppe: and being really ruthlessly laser focused on what you're doing.

  [00:53:26] Is this really necessary right now? Is this really moving us towards signing that first client? And if it's not, it goes in the not for now box. So it's absolute 100% blinkers on. Everything we do for the next three months, six months, could be six weeks, we don't know, is absolutely geared towards getting in the door and closing with that client.

  [00:53:53] Does that sound like it would be helpful?

  [00:53:56] Kelli Oberndorf: Absolutely. I really like what you're saying is like asking ourselves to get really, like asking is this action, will this action get us to where we want? And I think that's a really valid question because as I think as, as new business owners, you can get really wrapped up in the spinning plates and realize and not necessarily realize you're spitting a plate until it's maybe too late.

  [00:54:22] Um, and so, you know, yeah, really getting clear, it's helpful. Absolutely.

  [00:54:28] Jude Schweppe: Yeah. And also just thinking in terms of the different kind of idea buckets that you can have. So, you know, is, is this for, you know, future marketing? Is this for, you know, future programs or future trainings that we're doing? And sort of organizing your thoughts in that way. And literally maybe just having, you know, a Dropbox or wherever you're gonna sort of store all of your business information and go, well, that's really good idea, but let's not put it in the immediate box. Um, and again, ruthless and radically simple.

  [00:55:05] Kelli Oberndorf: Mm-hmm.

  [00:55:06] Jude Schweppe: And, sorry, I just, just wanted to bring you back to, to a, a, a word that really kind of stood out for me, Kelly, and that was stability.

  [00:55:14] Kelli Oberndorf: Mm-hmm.

  [00:55:15] Jude Schweppe: So I guess another question to ask is with all the ideas or the things that come up in your brainstorming session, is this moving me and us as a business towards stability? If it's not, we might have to be ruthless with it.

  [00:55:31] Kelli Oberndorf: Mm-hmm.

  [00:55:31] Jude Schweppe: So I I just have one more question on that. How many clients, or how many organizations are you working with whereby you feel I can start to breathe a little bit easier now because this is my first level of stability and it might be something to, to, to brainstorm with,

  [00:55:52] Kelli Oberndorf: yeah, I, I think contracts can be so variable. I feel like there's, you know, that's a little bit harder to, to answer. 'cause you know, one client might choose one half day training and the other client might do the whole 15 week leadership program for all their leaders. Right. So it's, it's a little bit hard to, to, to put a number of clients on there.

  [00:56:16] Um,

  [00:56:17] Jude Schweppe: Is it a value, is it like a, a program value? I.

  [00:56:23] Kelli Oberndorf: like a

  [00:56:23] Jude Schweppe: terms of? In terms of monetary value? Yeah, in

  [00:56:26] Kelli Oberndorf: Yeah, no, I mean, I think, I think there's, um,

  [00:56:33] I'm not a hundred percent clear on that quite yet. So I think that would be a good question to start with is like, what's the goal for, for both of us to be both me and my business partner to be stable? Um, what, what is that number? And I think working towards that number is, will help align us to what actions we need to take to get there, um, and to sustain it.

  [00:56:56] 'cause I think it's one thing to reach the goal, but if it's like, oh, we got this goal, woo-hoo, and then like, we don't have anything behind it, you know, it's like, what's gonna actually sustain that so that, you know, we're, we're, we're in a position that we, you know, it's like we can live and we're, we're not, you know,

  [00:57:13] Jude Schweppe: And also you can, you can think creatively because one of the things that, you know, financial pressure and financial worries does is it stifles your creative thinking and your ability to think beyond, you know, because you want your basic needs met. And when your basic needs are met, you can move up a level and start thinking more strategically and more creatively and more fun, you know, and start layering on your values and all those kinds of things.

  [00:57:36] Kelli Oberndorf: Right.

  [00:57:37] Jude Schweppe: Um, so I'd, I'd really encourage you to think about what gets us to, to stability and what are the core and key steps that are gonna get us there, and what else can we let go of? Just for the moment,

  [00:57:49] Kelli Oberndorf: Mm-hmm.

  [00:57:52] Jude Schweppe: Gabe?

  [00:57:55] Gabe Ratliff: Thanks. Uh, the other invitation I had is that a lot of people, and this is something that I run into a lot, that they want to get into the branding and people. You're not gonna get clients from branding. You're not gonna get clients from your website. You're not gonna get clients from social media. That's gonna take, that's a longer game.

  [00:58:17] My invitation is that it's gonna be through your relationships, it's gonna be through your network. It's gonna be through people that already know you and your partner. And so it's really about all that you already have right here. About figuring out, again, this is my invitation is to be thinking about like, what is it that you have, what, what are the trainings?

  [00:58:39] What do they look like? How much do they cost? Like, so that you feel confident about this is what we do, which you've, we've laid out, this is why I'm taking furious notes so that you, this is reflected back to you what you said. And you can take this, right? You can take this and you can, and you can, you can use this as a tool to help this work that, that we're proposing of this reverse engineering your onboarding process, right?

  [00:59:05] Because it's that confidence of this, these are our products, this is how you can work with us. This is how much it costs to work with us because of all of our years of experience and. Then they just choose, is it a good fit, is it not? Are we aligned or not? Right? You're interviewing them as much as they're interviewing you, and it's really about the relationships and the conversations and this, you know, sharing with your network.

  [00:59:32] Asking for, Hey, do you know anyone that needs this help in their business? Do you know anybody that's struggling with their culture? Do you know, I mean, how many businesses have siloing issues? You got plenty to pick from, right? But it's that clarity around like, who are these people? What, like where can, where are our people?

  [00:59:54] Kelli Oberndorf: Mm-hmm.

  [00:59:55] Gabe Ratliff: Who is it that we, we already have, we already know that they're aligned. Who do I know in my network? And it's, it's that what, what I hear often is it's, it's just this, and I have this issue as well. I, I was just thinking about it this morning of whenever you talk with someone asking, do you know someone like this? That has these issues that we help people with. 'cause we would love to meet them. We would love to help them. We would love to talk with them, right? And it's just that invitation of, Hey, do you know someone? Or are you this, do you have this going on? Because if, if, if we don't ask, they don't know. They don't because people think that we're doing great, right?

  [01:00:35] Like they think like, oh, this person's great. Like they, they must have several clients and they're, they're, they're doing well, right? And they, nobody knows unless you say, Hey, do you know this person? Do you know this business that we've articulated and identified this is, this is, and this is how we help.

  [01:00:54] Because then you get to jump into, well, yeah, let's have a conversation. You know, if they consent to wanting to talk with me. And then you can get into that place of like, here's how we serve, here's how we help. You know, who are you, how are we aligned? You know, if you don't know them and they're a referral, but. In this first stage, I encourage you, and again, invite you to like, think about working from within and out as opposed to I'm, you know, here we've got this sweet logo and blah, blah, blah, and we, you know, we did all this work, right? And, and everybody thinks this is what you gotta do. And it's not, it's not, it's not in the beginning how it's gonna really work to get those first clients.

  [01:01:38] Until you start to have that social proof, it's gonna be the people that know you like us and are gonna be like, I know places I would totally send you to so and so because I, I hear their horror stories, right? So again, I want to, I wanna just share that with you because you have what you need right now and it's, it's what you're bringing to the table and it's the people like us that know you and love you and are like, yeah, let's go.

  [01:02:04] And they're, they're just aligned, right? Or they, or they know they have. The, the challenge. And so that was something I just, I just wanna make, make sure to, um, uh, to share with you, to be, to be exploring and thinking about in this process where it can feel super overwhelming of like, we've gotta do all this stuff to like, be professional.

  [01:02:25] And it's like, you're already professional. I I we heard that, I heard that you all those exercises we just went through, that you took you through the, the moving the mind, all of those visualizations. Like all I heard was you got this, let's go, let's get to work. Right? It's just, are they aligned and are they ready to do the work?

  [01:02:44] Kelli Oberndorf: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's really helpful. Thank you for that. That's, you're right. It can be easy to get caught up in that kind of stuff to, um, yeah. It could be a distraction. And yes, I agree with you, Gabe, that it's really more about the network. It's really more about the, the relationship building. Um, I feel like that's what this industry is built on anyway, is the, the positive network that you have.

  [01:03:12] And yes, we need the logo and the business, you know, and the, and the website. Like those, those are things that we wanna be able to send people to, but we want, they're probably not gonna find us by just Googling, right? Because there's

  [01:03:24] Jude Schweppe: And that will come, like all of that

  [01:03:26] Kelli Oberndorf: of us in this area. Right. But yeah, absolutely. And that, um, so I really appreciate that.

  [01:03:32] 'cause it also reminds me to, to stay aligned to that and to actually do what live the mission of the organization, which is building relationships, you know? And um, so thank you. I appreciate that a lot.

  [01:03:46] Jude Schweppe: So just, just a reminder that everything on your to-do list, you can rate it by, is this getting us closer to signing that first client? And if it's not, you have to be so ruthless, even though the creative part of you is like, but I wanna go and look in

  [01:04:02] color

  [01:04:02] Kelli Oberndorf: I.

  [01:04:03] Jude Schweppe: and I don't wanna do all the pretty stuff.

  [01:04:05] 'cause I get so caught up in that myself. So I can relate.

  [01:04:08] Kelli Oberndorf: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

  [01:04:11] Jude Schweppe: where are, where are we now with everything? Kelly, how are you feeling about things now?

  [01:04:16] Kelli Oberndorf: Yeah. I feel good. Yeah. Thank you both very much. I really appreciate your time and, and willingness to dive into this stuff with me. And, um, yeah, just like pointing to what's important and, um, yeah, what you said, Jude, which is, you know, staying really connected to is this, is this actually moving us forward?

  [01:04:38] And I was thinking exactly what I was doing today. I was like, this morning I was like, I dunno if that was moving me forward this morning. So I appreciate like being able to ask that question to myself, like, is what I'm doing moving us forward? Um, so I appreciate that. And like Gabe, I really, like I said a minute ago, I, I, I really resonated with what you, what you mentioned.

  [01:05:02] So, um, Thank you both.

  [01:05:06] Gabe Ratliff: The other good reminder that I'm constantly thinking about is just that this isn't linear as, as, as, as you just shared right in your journey. Like it's not linear, but there's always the learning lessons in it. And now that you're moving forward and you've learned so much and that, and, and you know what you do and don't want and you've already got an ally that you've partnered with and Right.

  [01:05:29] It's like supporting in areas that you're, you've said we're weaker. Right? And, and then they're the areas where you're strong and that I imagine that they're not as strong. Right. And that they're weaker and that area. And that's the beauty. Just like with Jude and I, that's why we teamed up 'cause we were like, oh man, this, there's so much where we overlap, but then there's also so much that we each have and bring to the table and it allows us to like have this really fun and exciting, magical experience.

  [01:05:56] This is why we are doing this. Um, and it just keeps feeding that calling that we've found.

  [01:06:06] Jude Schweppe: So I have one last challenge for you, Kelly, and that is to, to come up with three practical or cerebral things that you wanna focus on that are going to move you forward. And I don't wanna put you on the spot right now, so you can send us an email and let us know what those three things are that you're gonna focus on.

  [01:06:30] That's very much about getting you to that point of stability up for the challenge.

  [01:06:36] Kelli Oberndorf: Totally up for the challenge.

  [01:06:37] Jude Schweppe: Amazing. We'll be checking our email inboxes tomorrow.

  [01:06:42] Kelli Oberndorf: Awesome,

  [01:06:44] Jude Schweppe: Thank you so much for your time, Kelly. That was really, really interesting to go through. Uh, you know, things that so many people are going to resonate with because that initial early stage of business building, it's fucking hard. It's really hard. It's overwhelming. There are so many things to think about.

  [01:07:03] There are so many things that distract us because we feel like we need to be doing all of the things. And it's, it's that really steep part of the mountain, you know, that we've just gotta kind of knuckle in, strap on the backpack and get plenty of water because it's gonna be, it's gonna be a tricky, tricky terrain to begin with.

  [01:07:22] And so all of the things you've talked about, about staying connected to your community, you know, leaning into your business partner, leaning into the strengths that they bring to the table, and just staying really, really focused on the core things, you know, until you get to that first resting point. And then you can reassess and go, right, we're ready for the next stage.

  [01:07:41] So wishing you all of the luck, all of the luck, you have everything in your toolkit

  [01:07:47] Gabe Ratliff: Mm-hmm.

  [01:07:47] Jude Schweppe: and you know, it's just about keeping going one humble step at a time. And keep us posted. Let us know how everything goes. We'd love to hear

  [01:07:57] Kelli Oberndorf: Will do. Thank you.

  [01:07:58] Jude Schweppe: And that brings us to the end of another episode of The Artful Experience,

  [01:08:08] Gabe Ratliff: whether you're a first time listener or a diehard fan. We want to thank you for being here.

  [01:08:13] Jude Schweppe: We hope you enjoyed today's show and got loads of value from the conversation.

  [01:08:18] Gabe Ratliff: And hey, if you're itching for more, don't worry. You can find all the juicy links in show notes for this episode at theartful.co.

  [01:08:25] Jude Schweppe: But before you go, we have a little favor to ask If you haven't already, please hit that subscribe button and leave a rating or review wherever you get your podcast fix. And do tune in for our next episode.

  [01:08:38] Gabe Ratliff: Your support means the world to us, and it helps us reach even more amazing artful entrepreneurs out there like you.

  [01:08:45] Jude Schweppe: Thanks again for joining us. We appreciate every single one of you.

  [01:08:49] Gabe Ratliff: Until next time, keep unleashing your creative genius and stay artful.