054: Cristina Amigoni & Alex Cullimore — Guiding Leaders to Uplift Organizational Cultures
Siamo founders talk about uncovering the humans inside organizations and helping leaders to lift them up
Siamo was founded in the traditional way - two people meeting at happy hour to scribble workplace improvement ideas on a napkin. Founders Cristina Amigoni and Alex Cullimore connected over a mutual desire to make work more human and treat humans like humans.
Both from a traditional consulting background, Cristina and Alex discovered a passion for coaching through professional coach training and realized the potential of blending coaching and consulting approaches. Combining the improvement mindset of consulting with a love for uncovering the authentic potential of people and organizations, Siamo emerged to guide leaders to uplift their organizational cultures and infuse human-centric practices into the workplace.
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TRANSCRIPT
ep 054: Guiding Leaders to Uplift Organizational Cultures with Siamo
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[00:00:00] Voice Actor: Ann Coatney: Hi and welcome. The Artful Podcast is an interview show where you'll get to know the people behind the creative brands we love. These open, casual, and candid conversations will shed a light on what it's really like to reach your true potential with joy, fulfillment, and freedom. Presented by Artful and hosted by Gabe Ratliff, an award-winning artist, entrepreneur, and coach. Are you ready to create your artful life? If so, then tune in, turn up, and listen hard.
[00:01:05] Gabe Ratliff: Christina, Alex, thank you so much for being here on the show. I'm so excited to have you here. Welcome.
[00:01:14] Cristina Amigoni: Thank you. We're excited to be here.
[00:01:17] Alex Cullimore: Yes,
[00:01:17] Gabe Ratliff: are always fun when you have a couple of people that you're interviewing now, because we're all like waiting to see like, who's ducking? Is there a delay? I don't know. Let's see how this goes. My first question to you is, how do you explain what you do?
[00:01:34] Cristina Amigoni: Not very well. That's my,
[00:01:42] Alex Cullimore: We leave it,
[00:01:44] Gabe Ratliff: I was gonna say end scene. That'll be the first trailer.
[00:01:56] Alex Cullimore: we've actually been in the middle of doing some of that work ourselves and, and figuring out how best to help explain the things that we do. So, I dunno if you wanna take a stab, Christina, or you, I can wander us into a quagmire of our own making.
[00:02:12] Cristina Amigoni: all right. I'll try to do it in a as few words as possible. And then you. Do whatever after that. I would say at the core of it is what we do is we humanize communities and specifically the workplace. And the, the goal there for us is to transform the way workplaces work, for lack of better words but the way they view people as machines who do as, as doings instead of human beings.
[00:02:52] And really go back to the, well, the, not only, they're not just machine doings, but they're humans and they're beings. So what if every business decision, every interaction started with the human in mind as opposed to maybe perhaps sometimes if we're lucky and we're around, you know, employee satisfaction time, we'll remember that there's a human.
[00:03:17] Involved in this
[00:03:20] Alex Cullimore: Oh damn. The people,
[00:03:23] Cristina Amigoni: I know. Forgot about them.
[00:03:28] Alex Cullimore: We spent a lot of time talking about doing things human first. That's one of the, one of the consistent things we tend to talk about when we think about our work is going in human first. And that means going in with that look of how do people work and what's actually going to help them. How, you know, not just expecting to say, you know, go do something this way and have it happen or not happen.
[00:03:47] And then just be, you know, angry about that. And so we focus a lot on some of the leadership portions of that because the leaders can have such a great impact on how you treat people. And whether you treat people with a more human and person oriented view, are you willing to see them as people who will have different levels of, of capacity on different days?
[00:04:05] Can you, can you understand that they are going to be part of you know, you, you are a part of their life and they are only giving part of their time to work. It's not just, you know, you can, you can run a ragged and they don't have any other influences and they should just be fully present at work and what, whatever else tends to come down the line when we don't treat the whole person.
[00:04:25] Gabe Ratliff: Hmm. That's one of the things I immediately fell in love with your messaging and how you all show up that led me to inviting you to be on the show was because when I, the last corporate gig I had, so I was in the startup world, I had, I helped three companies go to acquisition and on the third one I was so into it.
[00:04:52] Cristina Amigoni: us
[00:04:55] Alex Cullimore: Number four.
[00:04:57] Gabe Ratliff: let's talk. No, no, no worries. I was just gonna say like the, I was so into it that I wasn't just drinking the Kool-Aid like I was I, or not just making it, I was drinking it. I mean, is that the right, say? No, I'm saying not just drinking it. I was making it I mean, I was like so into it because we were supporting creative people.
[00:05:21] It was an online education startup, and we were, so, we were supporting creatives and the instructors were creatives, and it was like with education and we were getting to be, be creative. And it was amazing. I worked with amazing people. We're still, I think so many of us are still friends, and it was such a powerful network, but it was, it was just, it was such a grind.
[00:05:45] We were machines and we, we, even to speak to the machine element, and then I'll hand it back to you. The, we, we, like, were put into these teams that was only one of these efficiency teams to help with process efficiency because, you know, production takes a long time. If you think about a film, a feature film, it takes just in context for like my audience, you know, it, it takes six months to a year to make a film.
[00:06:19] People kind of miss that a lot. Like they don't really think about how much it takes. You know, when you look at Marvel at the end of the, of the movie and you see many, many, many, many, many, many, many minutes of people you took to make that film. You gotta think of that. That's all people, each one of those people, and a lot of people don't watch those credits, but like, that's people.
[00:06:40] And I was one of those people, we were on that team and we did this, we, we did this efficiency audit and we figured out how to basically get as efficient as possible to do these feature length pieces in 22 days.
[00:06:57] Cristina Amigoni: Wow.
[00:06:59] Alex Cullimore: Oh my God.
[00:07:01] Gabe Ratliff: I made 150 feature length pieces in three and a half years.
[00:07:06] Alex Cullimore: Wow.
[00:07:08] Gabe Ratliff: So if you think about Steven Spielberg doing 150 films, he hasn't done 150 films.
[00:07:17] Cristina Amigoni: I don't think so.
[00:07:19] Gabe Ratliff: And so I like to kind of put that out there for people to understand how intense this content creation and like progressive company, startup company churn has gotten.
[00:07:33] It's intense and especially when you're adding in creative aspects to it, which are, you know, is the predominant of my audience. So that's why I like to reiterate that to people, to like, think about like what that man, that, what that looks like when you like look back at like the work you've been doing and it's like, awesome, I've done a lot of work and all this stuff and I, I work with all these cool people and then you go, gosh, I mean, when you're doing 70 hour weeks and that kind of a churn, it, it's a lot.
[00:08:00] So that being said, I just wanted to share that story really quickly to like share like my connection to what I heard from you all and the work that you're doing and how important it is. That we are remembered as people because we're not algorithms, we're not bots, and I love what you're doing and so thank you so much for what you're doing and for being here to share that so others can learn more about it.
[00:08:29] Alex Cullimore: thank you. Yeah, I think the human being portion that Christina was talking about really is the, the piece there. So, you know, life can be, you can certainly be productive and you can certainly enhance productivity and you can think about efficiencies and a stop that these are bad things to do because inefficiencies can create a just drag, but, and in a more efficient, you know, workplaces can create more prosperity for the people that work there.
[00:08:51] But the question then becomes, what are you doing with that prosperity? I mean, how are you, how are you being, when you have this prosperity, what, what are you going to be able to do once you have this? And what's, what's the point of just the chase if you're not. Willing to experience if you're not willing to be part of this.
[00:09:07] And in inefficiencies can drag on people for a lot of different reasons. But just doing only efficiency can lead to that kind of burnout. You can lead to that end result where you're like, yeah, I've become massively efficient and I have no idea why I'm doing it anymore, but I'm really good at it.
[00:09:21] I've increased the wheels to the nth degree. We're moving fast to, I have no idea where.
[00:09:28] Gabe Ratliff: Hmm. And that's, yeah, that's it. I feel you there cuz. And then when you feel like you're not a part of it, you know, like you're not a part of that journey and you just feel like you are at that point, a part of the cog and not actually getting to experience it and you, you start to feel even more powerless.
[00:09:45] Oof.
[00:09:46] Alex Cullimore: Hmm.
[00:09:47] Gabe Ratliff: I'm curious, what was the defining moment in your lives that led you to this work and, and like to coming together, doing this work together?
[00:09:58] Alex Cullimore: Well we actually. that's that's the best, most concise version of it. Yeah. That was actually many, many happy hours that led exactly to this. We were working together in a startup and it, we, we had, it was definitely that culture of like, Hey, what if we can, you know, make these things more efficient? What if we can do this and how can we, how can we get basically to, it was, it was a lot of the understanding this was, this was like, I, I'd worked in consulting for a bit, this was the first time I was stepping into the industry and seeing this.
[00:10:31] Im impetus for we're gonna grow this, and this is about how we try and get to acquisition. Let's try and make our revenue numbers very specifically. And consulting obviously wants to grow its revenue, but this was about like stages so you can unlock investment. And so all of all the things that can go drive people into trying to create.
[00:10:47] um, Atmosphere. And when you consider all of those as the goals, those investment metrics and when, when can you make these certain gates? It's dehumanizing after a while, especially to the people that are don't have equity. You can give out stock options, but you know, your of nothing doesn't really motivate you to get out of bed on the, you know, second year of 70 hour work weeks.
[00:11:14] So
[00:11:14] Gabe Ratliff: But it sounds awesome.
[00:11:17] Cristina Amigoni: Yes. If
[00:11:18] Alex Cullimore: I piece
[00:11:21] Gabe Ratliff: I want a piece of nothing. How many stock options do you have? I have 10. What
[00:11:27] dude?
[00:11:28] Cristina Amigoni: I even know what stock options are Wait, I
[00:11:30] have to
[00:11:30] Gabe Ratliff: those?
[00:11:31] Cristina Amigoni: if actually want something outta them.
[00:11:34] Alex Cullimore: and you
[00:11:35] Gabe Ratliff: the word stock
[00:11:35] Alex Cullimore: after you leave Does that make us employee owned or employee option? I don't know what this means,
[00:11:43] Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. Not motivating.
[00:11:48] Gabe Ratliff: No, no.
[00:11:50] Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. But we did see a lot of people, a lot of humans, really good humans being hired in this company. An incredible number of really good humans who wanted to work hard, who were just sweating through all the work. And what was missing was the human aspect behind the culture and the decisions.
[00:12:12] And so the humans were doing all this work and putting all this effort and. Feeling miserable and spending more time crying than anything else. And the churn and the constant churn of people, which is then it's like, oh, now there's a whole new group of people that have no idea what's going on. It's gonna take me forever to, to figure it out.
[00:12:36] And then by the time they actually have some resemblance of how to do their job, it's true on time.
[00:12:42] Gabe Ratliff: Mm-hmm.
[00:12:43] Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. It's layoff time. It's burned out time. And so we, we tried to change things from the inside because of kind of the, the, the own of obsession of like, there's gotta be a better way, there's gotta be a better way to do this.
[00:12:59] And then realized that it's just really hard when you're not in that position. You can try to create it for yourself, but it's banging ahead against a wall that will never come a door become a.
[00:13:12] Gabe Ratliff: Hmm.
[00:13:13] Alex Cullimore: We're trying to create a safety net on the, on the inside. And you know, if, if it's not sponsored and it's not you know, helped from the top level, you're just creating a little umbrella under a larger rainstorm and you can only do so much there. And so that we, we bonded over a lot of happy hours of like, there's gotta, there's gotta be that way.
[00:13:31] And, and I think I'm really glad you brought that up, Christina too, that it was such great, great people cuz it highlighted for us the, and this is, I, I think I Carrie very strongly to this day, every time there's things like quiet, quit. People start to complain about things like that, then I just feel very I, I guess for lack of a better term, triggered by that because we saw so many good people who had such good intentions and were willing to put in like honestly insane hours that I hope they aren't doing post covid.
[00:13:57] And I hope that's shaken some of that too. But like when you see companies come out with like, well, people just don't wanna work anymore. And it's really, it's really hard to hear. Cause I've watched like, great, great people just get ground down.
[00:14:09] Cristina Amigoni: Yeah.
[00:14:10] Alex Cullimore: they weren't working, it was probably cause they were working too much.
[00:14:14] Cristina Amigoni: Yeah, it was because they were working. Yeah.
[00:14:17] Gabe Ratliff: Hmm. Well, so, so you then, you guys had these you all had these, these
[00:14:26] happy hours. these talks, and then what happened?
[00:14:34] Cristina Amigoni: At some point the, i, I, I reached the point of burn down and burn out, and so I decided it was time to go. And at the same time we had been talking, talking about, you know, how do we, we, if we can't help this organization, then what if we find a way to help whatever organization is actually open to this? And then we also wanted to have, Influence in creating the culture that we believe helps people thrive. And the only true way to do that is to have our own business. Cuz otherwise it's, it's always somebody else. Even at the executive level place in bigger companies, it's now you've got a private equity firm and investors and the board and the shareholders.
[00:15:26] There's always an outsider who's a decision maker that influences things. And so we were like, well, let's you know, let's start our own so that nobody from outside gets to tell us and gets to influence the culture. It's, you know, good or bad, we get to do that.
[00:15:45] Alex Cullimore: Yeah, that ship sinks that one's on us, but they, we did it.
[00:15:48] Cristina Amigoni: Yeah.
[00:15:49] Alex Cullimore: did it our way.
[00:15:50] Gabe Ratliff: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and that was coming back to when I left that at the last, that last corporate gig. That was what, same thing happened for me, where I was like, I, I wanna captain my own ship , you know, I did the deep work and I, you know, I asked my partner like, Hey, you know, gimme some space. I asked for consent, like, I need some space.
[00:16:15] What are you okay with that? Like, I really want to think about this and do the work and not just get back into the churn again. Cuz I, I mean that was three and a half years of just go. You know, just go, go, go, go. And I mean, I mean, it was so intense. I couldn't make plans during the week at all. I couldn't make dinners.
[00:16:36] I missed a lot of meals I like with family. I missed events. The weekend was just resting and recharging. I stopped working on the documentary adventure film I was making that I shot in Guatemala during the Mayen calendar reset in 2012. Like all that stuff, like, I just was like, I, I had no juice, I had no energy to do, I had no cre extra creativity.
[00:17:02] So like, I get it. I get where that comes from. I'm curious, like how has that choice of starting Siam O changed your lives, take, taking that
[00:17:16] Alex Cullimore: I love that question. I. I don't know that I've stopped to catalog all of that. there's
[00:17:25] Cristina Amigoni: I don't think I
[00:17:25] Alex Cullimore: many different ways that this has impacted. Like, there's, there's been moments where so we had a, a moment where we, we were in a, a bit of a tougher spot with a, a client where things were going well, and then suddenly it took a left turn on us and, and we we talked between each other and we were like, yeah, I mean we, if we're not responding to this, a are we creating the, the world that we want to create and are we living the, the company that we want to be?
[00:17:52] And we, we came to the conclusion that we had to have the conversation with them. Like we, we, we committed to, Hey, we'll, we'll talk it out, rather than just walking out. But we, we were considering walking out on, on a client to be like, Hey, we can't do this kind of work. This is not the environment that we can, we.
[00:18:08] Help you or be successful in. And if that's, and when, that was a huge moment I think for me that I hadn't really thought of until we had that happen where suddenly there was a moment that work wasn't as important as ourselves. Like, and, and it had been so much of that culture of like just, well, yeah, I wanna recharge that I can get back and, and do as, as much work as possible.
[00:18:29] And work had been so much a priority for, for me, that I'd, I'd made that the number one priority. That when we had that moment it really crystallized. What was the possibility for both giving ourselves the permission to do something and then really living by that and making something else a first priority that wasn't work.
[00:18:47] and, and ironically that's created all kinds of work for us. like, like as in we've gotten like better at messaging this and, and better at living in this. And we've gotten like some, which has been fantastic. I mean, it's, it's great to see a response from the world when you, you choose yourself on that. And that was, that was enormous.
[00:19:06] And I think another huge turning point was probably starting our podcast. We started a podcast during Covid, so we were trying to figure out kind of where, what we wanted to do while the world was quiet. And we'd always wanted to start a podcast and kept telling ourselves, we have to start a business first.
[00:19:19] But when we started the podcast, just cuz we thought that was the thing to do, we, we also had that similar kind of epiphany of, man we could give ourselves permission.
[00:19:29] Cristina Amigoni: Yes.
[00:19:29] Alex Cullimore: what if there we weren't waiting for that.
[00:19:32] Gabe Ratliff: Hmm.
[00:19:33] I
[00:19:34] Cristina Amigoni: Yeah.
[00:19:34] Gabe Ratliff: Just going for it. I love it. I love it. I love it. How about you, Christina?
[00:19:40] Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. I would say the, especially the last piece for me, the biggest change to my life is, I would say that for the first time of my working career and even personal life, not just working career, but it's definitely has expanded as a life thing. I feel like I gave myself permission to be me, whatever that is at, at the moment, and I have stopped. Trying to fit in and trying to change and chameleon my way through things in order to be accepted. And so this has allowed me to find the people that accept me because I accept myself first.
[00:20:30] Gabe Ratliff: Man, that's powerful. That was a mic drop. That's really powerful hearing, hearing that specific statement about not being a chameleon. To be liked. That one hits, that's resonates. That hits hard because I grew up and I had friends who were like, man, you're like a chameleon. You can like blend in and like all this stuff.
[00:20:55] And, and I remember like thinking like, oh, that's a, that's a strength. Like, oh, that's cool, which in some cases it is. And, but if that's how you're pleasing others and not being yourself, you don't have an identity. And so, wow. That, that really hits home. I wanna take it a step further and now say, okay, well we talked about how this has changed your life.
[00:21:22] Well, the next question for me is like, how is this changed others' lives?
[00:21:32] Cristina Amigoni: That's a good question. I should probably ask them. But I I I'm hoping that part of that is that they're giving themselves permissions to be themselves. Part of it is creating that space where it, it's a lead by example moment of if, if the space is safe for you to show up as you and be accepted as you have seen and heard, then how is that changing your life on your end?
[00:22:09] Gabe Ratliff: Yeah. And that permission, well, the, the, the question I was also thinking about a moment ago is you were talking about the resp, you know, the challenges when you were inside
[00:22:26] Cristina Amigoni: Mm-hmm.
[00:22:26] Gabe Ratliff: other business, where you were working together, working from within. What's the response been like from stakeholders now that you're coming in? Like coming in from this, like, cuz when you're thinking about those outside decision makers, that's who you're dealing with from the top. What's that been like? Because I mean, that's, it's like you're okay, you're out there doing this work to make this change. What's that response been like?
[00:22:59] Alex Cullimore: It's been a really interesting balance because we, we've go in and, and I think the experience of having gone out on our own and realized we couldn't change this from within, what was helpful in realizing this we wanted to go out and, and do this because we could be an influence and, and Christina was saying lead by example.
[00:23:15] We can create the alternative that people might want to drift towards. We want to create the culture that people might wanna say, Hey, I want a piece of that. I wanna look like that. I see that can be successful. How can we jump over to that? And now when we go into clients, there's some of that similar mentality.
[00:23:30] We, we have to allow enough space for us to basically provide space for them to get into where they want to be. And so if we can allow them to create that altern. Future for themselves or see us as a, a potential conduit to like, Hey, this doesn't have to be the same way that we've always done this.
[00:23:50] And that means allowing us to allowing ourselves to have the patience to find people that will have that kind of buy-in and have the curiosity to say, I think something could be different. I don't really know what that looks like, but I think this could be something else. And so there's some about some, a bit of selecting clients carefully that have that curiosity, have that openness to being able to see that and then trusting ourselves enough.
[00:24:14] And it's a repeated exercise and just going back and, and I mean, thankfully we get to share this journey with each other cuz I don't, I don't think it'll be very difficult alone. We, we can go back and be like, yep, we're still gonna stick by these values. We we're getting pressures. Occasionally you get, you know, if there's a group of 15 stakeholders, it's likely you're gonna get at least one or two that at, at at first or at various times.
[00:24:35] They're like I don't know if I like this . And, and so it's having that faith to go back and be like, no, I think if we can, if we can create the example and we can leave the space and figure out what the blocks are for them, we can allow this to flourish. And, and we've seen some success in that. So that's been a, a really interesting learning curve for, for us.
[00:24:56] Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I would agree with that. I think there's a lot of, one of the things we tell our clients, especially when we walk in and from a, from a change perspective, is we can't change for you. We could create an nice packaged little plan that tells you exactly, you know, what needs to be done when, and it means absolutely nothing.
[00:25:17] So we'll create it and then, It'll mean absolutely nothing because it's back to, it's humans changing, it's behavior change. And so as much as I would like to say in six months all your leaders are gonna be doing this, maybe yes, maybe no. Maybe some, maybe others. And most likely we're all gonna change your mind on what this is. So you're not even measuring what we started with. And and part of that is helping people go through the human journey of transformation, which is beyond the this is what the business wants. Yeah. And the business can want whatever the business can want. And unless you've figured out a way to hire robots, the humans are gonna determine what the business is gonna do. And so how do we allow for that? How do we not just give the space to our clients to, to flourish in that? , but create it in a way that when we're gone, they give it to themselves.
[00:26:26] Gabe Ratliff: Hmm. Yeah, the,
[00:26:29] Alex Cullimore: and it brings up the,
[00:26:30] sorry.
[00:26:30] Gabe Ratliff: ahead. No, go.
[00:26:32] Alex Cullimore: I was gonna say, it brings up the other portion of it. A lot of, a lot of impetus comes from the, you know, businesses say we have to change this way, or the marketing, the market's going this way, so we're gonna have to change as a business. So I don't really care whether people like it or not.
[00:26:44] Like if, if we wanna survive, we have to do this. And it's a totally understandable mentality. Like there's a lot of pressure from markets, there's a lot of visceral reaction to, oh God, what if we run out of time? And well, it just needs to happen. It just needs to happen. And again, fully understandable, very easy to fall into it all the time.
[00:27:03] And if we don't consider the human journey in this, we might not make that transmission transformation successfully anyway. So you might see what needs to happen. You might say that it just has to happen. But until you give that space and allow that to happen, you might miss the mark anyway. All the knowledge in the world won't deliver the result you're looking.
[00:27:25] Gabe Ratliff: Yeah, I was, I was thinking about in context of how I've seen that, especially cuz that's one of the things that it's really powerful in that young, you know, startup environment. It's great because it's, and that was what I fell in love with was, it's like, it's, it's nimble, it's, it, there's this wonderful energy, right?
[00:27:45] There's this like, like there's this, there's, it's vivacious and kinetic and you know, you just feel this, it's like a living thing. I imagine it's the same thing you feel with yamo, right? Like it's, you, you're building this momentum, right? It's exciting. And I know you just brought on another friend as a, as a colleague and it's so exciting.
[00:28:13] I'm so excited for Kelly and. you know, in that growth, right? There's like all these things going on. And I remember when I first came on at that last startup, I was like around 125 and have you all read Rework by the, the guys behind Base Camp? Have you heard of that book? It's, it's a great book. I, I forget their names at this point.
[00:28:38] But wonderful book. And they talk about, with Base Camp, their whole thing is about they won't go over 55 people. They have this like, we're gonna stay small. And I have this whole same thing of like, I love, like, I don't like big stadium shows cuz it's just so d you're just disconnected . It's just this massive people and it's cool cuz it's big and all that stuff.
[00:29:00] Big shows and all these things, but it's, you, you lose something, you know, you lose that connection. There's a point where it's just too big and we see that so often. I, I've actually seen this literally with. , pretty much every one of the companies that I'm talking about that have gone to acquisition, they got, they got bought by a bigger company, got bought by another company.
[00:29:20] I just had a conversation with someone the other day and they were talking about, they were, you know, at a company that went through the same thing and got, you know, ended up getting bought by Microsoft in the end and that it just, all of a sudden they looked back and were like, this isn't even the company that I
[00:29:37] started in, you know, like this.
[00:29:38] It's completely turned into this new while they were inside it, you know, and like, it's like the frog in the pot , you know, when you turn up the water slowly that always come and come back to that analogy cuz it seems very similar because then you kind of lose that, you lose that energy, that kinetic fire that's like, if, if that's what lights what you were talking about, the people that they just, they, they wanna work hard.
[00:30:03] They wanna believe in something. I remember, that's what I was saying, like, I was like making the Kool-Aid. I was like, yeah, dude, we're, this isn't making an impact. You know? And it's like, it feels great, but when you start to feel the cracks of capitalism and,
[00:30:20] Cristina Amigoni: Mm-hmm.
[00:30:21] Gabe Ratliff: you know vote by committee was what came up for me a minute ago when you were talking about that, that those, those odd ducks and the stakeholders, , right.
[00:30:36] I've dealt with this as a creative business owner. Like when we were working with clients and you, you get into this vote by committee and I'm always like, okay, let's go into this understanding what we're dealing with, you know, and you've gotta essentially sell the idea.
[00:30:50] Cristina Amigoni: Mm-hmm.
[00:30:51] Gabe Ratliff: Has that been what you've run
[00:30:52] Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's definitely quite a bit of that. And it is hard cuz it's a balance. You don't, won't buy in. you want people to not be dictated at. And yet the other side of the coin is the vote by committee. The other side of the coin is like, oh, okay, now everybody has a voice, which we're all for giving people a voice and you still gotta move.
[00:31:16] And also it takes time to, to then discern is what's said at the table about what we're talking about or is it past scripts? Is it about what's happened in the past? It is about what just happened in the last meeting. Is it about, because we are humans and so we don't objectively look at things. We look at things based on our experience, whether recent or passed, or a combination of both.
[00:31:45] We look at things based on how much we slept or what we ate that day and the other 15 influencers. And so at which point do you decipher what's what's a voice or what, what's been said that has the same way to something else and not, and how do you deal with that?
[00:32:07] Gabe Ratliff: Hmm. What would you say to. The, the, the leaders of organizations listening to this, what would you say the most important thing they should do to either audit or improve the human experience within their organiz? Or even if it's, even if it's just, you know, the small companies, you know know, where they're just starting to get going, right?
[00:32:38] There's, because there's still a team. Like what do you, what do you say to them or people who are thinking of go, here's a go, let's tack that on, right? Like, the people who are going to have a team, right? They're starting to scale. what should they be thinking about? What's the most important thing that they need to do today?
[00:32:56] Alex Cullimore: I feel like this might feel a little reductive, but call me for a sec. I would say listen deeply and that means to others and yourself. that means listen for what, what is important. Listen for what people are really saying. It's not, it's not the surface things that they'll bring up. It's not the oh, I was just frustrated about this one meeting.
[00:33:16] Listen for the patterns. Listen for what you can do to help them and listen to yourself. And like, like you're talking about it, you can, you can get to the point where you feel like you're bought into the mission and it's easy to start losing sight of like, yeah, I did see a crack, but you know, that's okay.
[00:33:31] I'm gonna push that away. I'm gonna crash it away. I'm not gonna think about that. If you're not listening deeply to yourself and hearing those and watching out for, okay, there's some signs of change. And even when we don't want the things to change, even when things were good and we want to clinging to that feeling, it requires that going back and, and listening.
[00:33:50] Cristina Amigoni: Yeah, that's definitely a big one. I would say a couple of things. One is define what it means to be, to, to live the culture, to live the company. So what does it mean to show up at Siam o which yes, yes, we have the core values, but what does that actually mean? When there's a decision to be made, when there's a, when there's a time when we may not be in integrity with our values, what are we gonna do about it?
[00:34:18] Are we gonna ignore it or are we gonna actually call it out and talk through it? And so, kind of have a, have a plan because those moments are gonna happen. We can have, you know, great mo, great values and great integrity, intention, and then. The big shiny client comes along and something that they want you to do goes against the values or against the mission.
[00:34:43] And because of the dollar signs, you know, are you just gonna blindly say like, well, just this time you know, so, and, and it's fine, but have a plan for those moments because they're gonna continuously, continuously happen. And so that's, that's a big piece. And then the other piece is the pausing is pause and reflect.
[00:35:04] Pause and reflect. Let go of the gas pedal, stop running and pause and reflect. And with that reflection, turn all your walls into mirrors, because whatever is happening, you gotta look into yourself, not everybody else. It's not always on the other side of the wall. The, the, the crack happened. It's like, how did I contribute between ignoring the crack, perpetuating it, letting it happen?
[00:35:32] Gabe Ratliff: Mm. Those are powerful. Listen deeply, have a plan. Live the culture. Pause and reflect, which thanks for that little drop. That was my blog today. And
[00:35:48] Alex Cullimore: Thought
[00:35:48] Cristina Amigoni: Not in, not intentional.
[00:35:50] Gabe Ratliff: I was like, Hmm, I caught that
[00:35:52] Cristina Amigoni: so not intentional.
[00:35:54] Gabe Ratliff: Oh, no way. Oh, that's awesome. I didn't know if you happened to see it. Turn walls into mirrors. Hmm. Turn the walls into mirrors. That one, because I remember that feeling of, you know, being a part of this thing and being, you know, being people are, are capable of such power and wisdom and when you feel like you're a part of the cog, it makes you, it, it, it, it's so dehumanizing.
[00:36:26] You know, you feel like just less than, and there were actually many of us who would meet and we called it accountability club after we left and would, would, would get together and like talk about what we're working on and all these things. And there were many of us over the, over at least a year after that, still had trauma from that. And how that, that's impacting, you know, cuz we spend so much time in our work environment and with our, our peers a lot of times more than our family, right? Like, that's a big percentage of our week that we give. So that's what I, I feel like this is such a powerful conversation and part of the reason that I was asking you about the response that you were getting from leaders is because of what we've been through, right?
[00:37:18] Like, just like, because I, I feel that there's a consciousness shift happening. I, I want to believe that it's what's hap that's what my, my example I'm living and hence us being here. Hence you doing what you're doing, me doing what I'm doing and us having this conversation and sharing this because it's, we are the ones making the change. Like you were talking about that.
[00:37:44] Ironic choice of we're gonna live our example and look, we're actually succeeding and we're getting more clients and the universe is showing up for us cuz we showed up. And I love that you shared that and that's why I wanted to bring it back up again into like, reiterate that to people listening because that's the power of intention.
[00:38:05] Like you were talking about having a plan, live, live, the culture. Hmm. Powerful stuff. I, I'm curious if you had a magic wand and could change anything related to people's mindsets the human experience, what would it be? In, in life and work, right? Like in this context.
[00:38:31] Alex Cullimore: Yeah. I love the question. We, we love starting questions with, if you had a magic wand, how would you change this? Cause it, it helps people really visualize that. And I am currently in the struggle of visualizing that.
[00:38:51] I think, and, and this is probably informed by this conversation somewhat, but the and the recency bias of, of being here the, the human being part comes to mind is that we, we have this chance to, to. And work can be a great part of that because you, you can be part of something and it can be very energizing to put your energy into something that's even bigger than yourself.
[00:39:14] And, and getting that and understanding the actual, like, rather than that being the end, it's only an end if the thing you put this in becomes, you know, an I P O or something like that. Good. Translating back into what if, what if it was more about the experience of what can we contribute together?
[00:39:32] What can we build, what can we influence, what are our connections? Getting back to that, that if I could wave that magic wand and have people really think about what it is to be alive rather than what it is to accomplish things that would be significant.
[00:39:50] Cristina Amigoni: Yeah, I would say very similar to that, but I would turn it on companies, meaning having companies stop measuring numbers. in the sense of, I don't know how many projects, how many dollars, how many projects bring dollars, whatever version of the dollars gets measured in, in name, how many clients. But really look at you're succeeding as a company.
[00:40:19] When people feel seen and feel heard, to the point of waking up in the morning and thinking, I exist, I matter here. a measure of success as opposed to I have completed 15 projects in 10 weeks, and last year it was 15 in 20 weeks.
[00:40:45] Gabe Ratliff: That just brought up another question for me around the teams and their response, because I'm seeing a lot of stuff out there about the younger generations are standing up and saying, I mean obviously we're seeing with, and there's the great resignation as far as boomers and what the pandemic kind of brought with that.
[00:41:09] But then we're also seeing this very powerful shift by the Gen Z and the millennial generation of saying like, hold on now. You all had your chance, ,
[00:41:25] Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:41:26] Gabe Ratliff: in a different light now. Would you agree that like that's what you're also hearing from like
[00:41:30] the teams underneath the leaders, that they're like all about this kind of a, this kind of work.
[00:41:38] Alex Cullimore: I think there is a movement towards that, that more purpose driven and that, that not being willing to sacrifice everything, especially for a toxic culture or some feeling like that or something that is draining. They want, they wanna feel fulfilled and do something fulfilling that feels like a, a common theme.
[00:41:53] And the interesting part has been watching that ripple effect. Cuz at first it was like that, that started to happen and people were like, that's, you know, there was there. Not to generalize. This is, this is gonna sound like a big generalization. The like the, the old guard at that point is saying, no, that's, that's bad.
[00:42:11] Like, it doesn't, that's not what's important. Go back to the days of like, here's a, here's a raise, and, and then shut up and go back to your desk. Like that's, that's the only thing that matters. We don't care about the purpose here. This is just whatever else. It's interesting to see it ripple up.
[00:42:26] Because every once in a while you get to see the you know, the, the VP that's been around for 30 years suddenly start to engage and work in a different way and start to see that. And then they start to see that they want a piece of, like a life again with their family and spending more time there.
[00:42:39] And they, they start to feel like, wait, what have I missed out on the rest of being and what if I now we're seeing a, a good, I, in my opinion, very biased, a good renaissance in what it means for leadership or leadership being more coaching. And if you want those titles, it's not just this fancy thing where you get to go bark orders at people.
[00:42:56] It's, you are now, you're responsible for helping and developing people. And that can be incredibly fulfilling. And it might not also be for everybody, but regardless, it's, then that's, that becomes the important measure of success. And that ripple back up and seeing people come alive because they feel connected to their life as a life is really cool.
[00:43:17] And, and I'm hoping that
[00:43:18] Cristina Amigoni: Mm.
[00:43:19] Alex Cullimore: around.
[00:43:21] Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. Yeah, I would definitely agree with that. I think it, it's definitely a grassroots revolution.
[00:43:29] The revolution. was coming it was definitely brewing and then the pandemic just, you know, turned it into its tsunami of like, oh, no, no, not in few years now. And, and it, it was needed. And it's it's grassroots because of things like, I, you know, put a, a position out there on, on our company website and it takes me 90 days to fill it. So it's like, yes, it's not your choice anymore. Like that position is no longer just a paycheck. It's a lot more than that. It's a life decision. And jobs are life decisions. And so it takes longer and yes, now there's, there's layoffs and there's the potential recession that may or may never come and, and all those things, but there's still the industries where Yep.
[00:44:21] You know, open positions. Let's make sure that we know what we're doing for the next three months cuz that's not getting filled.
[00:44:30] Gabe Ratliff: Yeah, it's interesting to see that. And, and it was, I'm, I'm glad you brought that up. Alex, because I was totally thinking like this. I love that you put it that way of the, the, the rippling up and it's like this reverse peer pressure
[00:44:44] Cristina Amigoni: Yeah.
[00:44:45] Gabe Ratliff: of the trickling down from the top. And that was something I remember feeling a lot back in the day of like that, you know, how they say like, shit rolls down.
[00:44:56] You know? And just that really was like what led to that feeling of like being less than, because you're just like, man, I, I, I thought we were a part of this and now we're growing And there was, I mean, and there's growing pains, right? There's growing pains and there is a, you keep coming back to this around like living your culture and like make the choices you make
[00:45:17] Cristina Amigoni: Mm-hmm.
[00:45:18] Gabe Ratliff: what keeps things in line.
[00:45:20] And, and it I'm a big fan of, of space. You know, I grew up loving, I wanted to be an astronaut. Like I love the space program. I'm so excited that we're back into exploring space and, and I just feel like, and I have family and friends, like we're all really into space and you know, we had decades that we, you know, since the, essentially the Challenger and Discovery where we just, put a pin in that and we're like, yeah, let's just let that go.
[00:45:54] That's literally exploring our universe and like this really exciting thing. And they're like, nah, we did it. We went to the moon. You know, we'll just invent. Yeah, we're good. We've seen galaxies, you know, and you're going, okay, got it. So Star Wars was okay, like Star Trek, all that stuff, like all that excitement around, you know, as far as sci-fi, but then also, you know, what we actually achieved.
[00:46:24] and then going, yeah, that's enough. And, and the reasoning why and stuff that's come out since. But one of the things that has, and this I'm, I'm getting to the, the relevance of the analogy, but like, one of the things that I love about what you're speaking to around how this applies to, to, to people's professional lives as well as their personal is the aftermath, the wake, and my analogy with the space program is that we've left, it's very much akin to what we've done with industry and the earth.
[00:46:59] We've done the same thing with space travel and like yes. Having technology like satellites and things like that so that we can actually be communicating right now. Heard. Got it. Let's take that off the table. But the, the fact that we're not thinking about the wake of our choices, we have so much space trash that's up floating around, right?
[00:47:22] All because of. And, and I, I know I'm digressing a little bit here, but like, I just feel like it's such a great analogy around we have to start to take intention about the things that we do, whether it's in something cool like space travel and that wake, what we call in the Burning Man community, Moop matter out of place, you know, like leaving matter out of place.
[00:47:44] And that's essentially what we have done in a lot of these areas in our life, right? Like business of like, I, I was moop, I was moop , I was matter out of place. I was used and thrown away and I floated along on the, on the ground and was like, I'm gonna do something with my life. You know, like I made this choice of like, I'm no longer gonna be out of place.
[00:48:07] I'm gonna choose my place. And so all jokes aside, you know, I just think that this is a wonderful thing that you're doing to. Have intention about things that are extremely important because we spend so much time, you know, working in our lives and because we are in this opportunity it seems very opportune that you've had the courage to, to, to run a business like this, helping other businesses because of the time that we're in
[00:48:46] Cristina Amigoni: Total coincidence.
[00:48:49] Gabe Ratliff: is it
[00:48:50] Alex Cullimore: We feel very
[00:48:51] Cristina Amigoni: we, yeah, we started and I'm like, if only there could be a pandemic then
[00:49:00] Gabe Ratliff: If only there could be something to, right.
[00:49:02] Cristina Amigoni: I know
[00:49:03] Gabe Ratliff: Something to bring people together.
[00:49:05] Cristina Amigoni: this. On I year year . Not a year.
[00:49:08] Gabe Ratliff: So, you know, as we start to kind of wind, wind back down again I wanted to ask, you know, is there anything that maybe a question I didn't ask or maybe that something that you would love to speak to that we didn't touch on yet?
[00:49:26] Cristina Amigoni: you are some really good questions
[00:49:28] Alex Cullimore: Yeah, you got great questions.
[00:49:31] Gabe Ratliff: Thanks.
[00:49:36] Alex Cullimore: I think it's hard to, it's hard to convey until you get to experience it yourself.
[00:49:43] But there is some joy to, and it's. , it's a weirdly different type of joy. Like I've, I've experienced, you know, the joy of being very excited to travel somewhere or, you know, have some beautiful scenery or something, or the joy of like, you know, just getting, getting a, a great night with friends.
[00:50:00] It's not, it's not to take away from those moments of joy. Those are, those are wonderful. I do feel like I've experienced a different type of joy in doing this, where we choose to just live some deeply authentic version of ourselves and the more comfortable we get sharing that, and the more we get to just be ourselves in, we do this with our clients.
[00:50:23] We, we will happily joke about, you know, ourselves, we'll happily joke about what we're doing. We'll, happily, we do this in a, in the realm still of the service of what we want to bring. And there is some deeper joy than I had experienced, and I hope that it's true for most people. I, it's true for you guys.
[00:50:40] I hope it's true for anybody who gets the chance and, and takes the chance to do it when you, when you just dig in. Figure out what really, who you are and what that means and get to live that There's some absolute different type of connection you can
[00:50:57] Cristina Amigoni: Mm-hmm.
[00:50:58] Alex Cullimore: and with what you're doing. And it's addictive, for lack of a better
[00:51:03] Cristina Amigoni: It is, it is, it is, addictive. Yeah. I, I would agree with that. It's definitely a much, it, it, you, it's like you're not searching anymore. You're, you've switched the energy from searching and wondering why am I. , you know, that, you know, what's, what's the meaning of my life? Not what's the meaning of life, but what's the meaning of my life?
[00:51:28] Why am I here? And so the energy has shifted from, from focusing on that and being so attached to figuring out the answer to, I just am.
[00:51:43] Alex Cullimore: living.
[00:51:46] Cristina Amigoni: I'm, I'm here. That's it. So how, how can you know? What else can I learn? What else can I do? How else can I serve?
[00:51:56] Gabe Ratliff: Yeah. It's, it's like, I love coming back to that Shawshank Redemption quote where he talks about getting busy living. You know, like
[00:52:02] it's,
[00:52:03] Cristina Amigoni: Yeah.
[00:52:04] Gabe Ratliff: I I had that same what you just said. I'm like, oh, felt that, because I remember being in college and like n. Studying philosophy and psychology and sociology and all this stuff.
[00:52:19] And, and I'm, you know, majoring in, in art and continuing to ask this question, right? For, and for 20 years I've been asking this question like, what am I here for this search? You know? And I love, I'm a lifelong learner. I get that same from you bo you both,
[00:52:39] Cristina Amigoni: Mm-hmm.
[00:52:40] Gabe Ratliff: Very much. And you know, so that's not changed.
[00:52:44] But I remember getting to that place of, ah, here you are. Here's the path I've been, I've been hacking with the machete for years now. There you are. You know, and then you just get to be like you said, and you get to focus on serving in like that lifelong learning and how that supports the serving. And it's like this pressure taken off because you can just be, and there's like this, there's not this sense of like, really a concern about what others are doing. Cuz there's such a, like you were saying, Alex, there's such an excitement about like the, the being and how like you, like there's a different type of joy. It's like this like, whoa, Oh, that's not like just a cool job. You know, like the kid you talked to growing up who had the cool job, it's not like that cool job, like, oh, you work for Disney or whatever, right?
[00:53:41] And you're like, yeah, but you don't know what it's really like to work for Disney, you know?
[00:53:46] Uh, I, I had a friend who worked for Pixar and I was like, dude, you work for Pixar? And he was like, I've been creating blades of grass for the last three months, And I'm not kidding. Like, that was literally, he was like, I've been, I've been designing blades of grass. I think it was for like ants or one of those films, you know? And he is like, I've been designing blades of grass. And I, and he was like, it's really not sexy. And I was like, okay, that dream is now completely gone.
[00:54:18] Like, okay, got it. That was, I think, the final frontier for me. I was like, got it. Okay. So no more cool jobs. So that's, that's what I was hearing. So I'm curious, like, tell us something we don't know about you.
[00:54:37] Cristina Amigoni: That's a tough one. You know, I mean, we have a podcast where we just vomit all over the podcast with everything that's going on in our head at the moment. It's like, huh? What have I not said in one of our podcast episodes? Something you didn't know about me? Well, I grew up in Italy and we know that what I guess some people know, most people don't know is that I. , don't drink coffee, have never liked it. And I actually didn't like wine until I after college, so it was very identity crisis type, because I'm like, wait, I'm supposed to like these things, but I don't.
[00:55:29] And that's a very surface answer.
[00:55:35] Gabe Ratliff: It makes sense though, right? It's relevant to You, you, you, you you walked to the beat of your own drum, even
[00:55:42] back then, so
[00:55:43] Cristina Amigoni: Yeah.
[00:55:44] Gabe Ratliff: it's another dot connecting to who you are. .
[00:55:47] Cristina Amigoni: Mm-hmm. .Yeah. Now I do like wine. I still don't like coffee, but I do like wine. Yes.
[00:55:51] Gabe Ratliff: Yeah. You chose though, right? It wasn't like,
[00:55:53] Cristina Amigoni: I chose, yes.
[00:55:56] yeah.
[00:55:56] Gabe Ratliff: you, Alex
[00:55:58] Alex Cullimore: Actually Gabe, I very much relate to your stories about like, hacking with the machete to try and find life's purpose. And in that search, I'm just gonna give a quick list of various thi identities and things that I have done.
[00:56:13] Gabe Ratliff: Yes.
[00:56:14] Alex Cullimore: I I, at various times I have been an actor, an improviser. I graduated in theoretical math.
[00:56:23] I was a business intelligence consultant. I've been a standup comedian. I have eight cats in my house and that is a downgrade from 10 that I had a month ago. And I do like coffee and wine and Oh God. What else? Oh I, I tried learning Russian for a while after teaching myself French after Spanish, cuz languages are super fun.
[00:56:48] I really like math still. And now I'm getting back into philosophy and linguistics cause it's just kind of a good time. And yeah, that's just a, the, the, exploration and, and digging for some kind of purpose has led to many different paths. But I've enjoyed just being on them. Now in retrospect, at the time it felt like, yes, but this isn't the one, but this isn't the one
[00:57:10] Gabe Ratliff: Right, right.
[00:57:12] Alex Cullimore: But now it's fun to look back and see all these things.
[00:57:16] Gabe Ratliff: Here, here.
[00:57:17] Cristina Amigoni: Yeah.
[00:57:18] Gabe Ratliff: Yeah. I love that. And I love doing that with clients and with people in general, right? Like, just looking at those dots and, and I mean, just like we were talking about with Christina with like the coffee and the wine, you know, like, and thinking about like, well, what's the other way to look at that?
[00:57:33] Well, that was, you walk into your, the beat of your own drum, you know, and like Alex with you, that connection. I mean, all of those things, like the analytical mind around math and but also having that the right brain of improv, acting you know, impulse, like being able to like riff and, and jam, right?
[00:57:57] And I, I'm, I'm a musician, so like that being able to jam, it's supportive to a lot like in business, like having to like bob and weave and be agile and like be quick on your, quick on your on your feet. Those kinds of things. So like I love those things like when you can look back and be like, oh, that served me here and I'm now serving others because of that, or that just fills my cup.
[00:58:22] Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:58:24] Yeah.
[00:58:24] Gabe Ratliff: that. That's cool. That's just gonna be over
[00:58:26] Cristina Amigoni: Mm-hmm.
[00:58:27] Gabe Ratliff: and you guys can't have that That's awesome. Well,
[00:58:32] Alex Cullimore: I really liked that you said that oh, sorry. I was gonna say I love that you said that about the growth journey and you talked about being a lifelong learner. Cuz there there is a lot of really exci exciting pieces of getting to be like we were talking about being now. But it is still growth. You get to have growth in this being and it's not just you, you are there and it's some
[00:58:50] Cristina Amigoni: Mm-hmm.
[00:58:51] Alex Cullimore: growth in that and it's I I really liked that you called that out cuz it just is a, is an important part. Instead of thinking there is an end line, there's
[00:58:58] Cristina Amigoni: Mm-hmm.
[00:58:58] Alex Cullimore: that grows. It's just this totally different type of being.
[00:59:02] Gabe Ratliff: Mm-hmm.
[00:59:04] Cristina Amigoni: Yeah.
[00:59:06] Gabe Ratliff: Yeah, I, I love when people talk. Like how someone didn't do something until they were like 60, 70, 80, right? Like, you hear those stories
[00:59:18] and
[00:59:19] Cristina Amigoni: Mm-hmm.
[00:59:20] Gabe Ratliff: you know, and you're just like, what? That's, and they, and I, I've seen them recently, some new cool ones. I can't think of anybody off the top of my head, but I just love those stories, right, where it's just like people continuing to
[00:59:30] reinvent
[00:59:30] Cristina Amigoni: Mm-hmm.
[00:59:32] Gabe Ratliff: and it like gives you that space to do that.
[00:59:35] That's awesome. Did you have anything you wanted to say there, Christina?
[00:59:42] Cristina Amigoni: Oh, I'm sure I have tons of things. One of the, and it's, it's to an earlier kind of place when we were talking about the, the being, the letting go of the why I here and then, Changing the effort to just being and learning and all of that. But that's what, that's the vision or the, the hope or the mission that I have for, for companies.
[01:00:06] If companies could create an environment where everybody or most people felt that way, I would say that's when the possibilities are endless, because that's when you, you want to learn, you want to change because you know it helps you, not because somebody's imposing it. You, you seek connections with others because you see yourself in them.
[01:00:31] And so all these barriers really go away, and it really just comes down to create this space for people to feel like they matter and everything else will just organically.
[01:00:48] Gabe Ratliff: Hmm, hmm. It's interesting how, as we progress, I was just, I, I continue to say to like my loved ones uh, at, at different times, especially like my wife, how blessed we are to been able to witness the transition over these last several decades from like analog to digital. You know, like being a dj, like loving vinyl and like that's actually still going, which is great.
[01:01:16] But, you know, seeing the transition into digital and like internet, mobile, you know, now we're talking space travel, all of these different things. Electric vehicles, flying cars, ai, all of this stuff like the cures for things. And, and just getting to see this over our generations. This amazing transformation similar to the Industrial Revolution, but like on such a grander scale because we're, we're now like able to get off our planet, you know, and do all these cool things.
[01:01:52] And I, I just think it's so great that we can also keep looking back at such simple things as what you just said, right? That like, we'll figure it out organically.
[01:02:05] Cristina Amigoni: Mm-hmm.
[01:02:10] Gabe Ratliff: Where can people find you online? How can they connect with you?
[01:02:16] Alex Cullimore: We have our website. sammo.com. So that's we are, and then sia m o.com. We also have a podcast called Uncover the Human. You should be able to find that on any podcast channel
[01:02:29] online. I think for, for me, I'm, I technically have other social medias, but I really only ever use LinkedIn and even than somewhat Bradley.
[01:02:38] So LinkedIn My name, Alex Comore
[01:02:41] Cristina Amigoni: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I would say LinkedIn. Same places.
[01:02:48] Gabe Ratliff: Awesome. Well, Christina, Alex. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much. This has been such a great conversation. I hope. Hope you've had as much fun as I have. It's been such a pleasure to have you on the show.
[01:03:00] Alex Cullimore: been a
[01:03:00] blast. Thank
[01:03:00] Cristina Amigoni: you
[01:03:01] Alex Cullimore: for having us.
[01:03:02] Cristina Amigoni: Yeah, it was definitely a be a being conversation, not a doing conversation.
[01:03:07] Voice Actor: Ann Coatney: Well, that's it for this episode. Whether this is your first time listening or you're already a fan, thanks for being here. We hope you enjoyed the show. All lengths and show notes for this episode can be found@theartful.co. If you haven't yet, please subscribe to the show and leave a rating or review wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks again for listening. Until next time, keep being artful.
