050: Matt Essam — Thriving with Creative Courage
Business coach shares how creative agency owners and freelancers will succeed
Once referred to as the UK version of Chris Do (by the man himself), Matt Essam is a highly sought-after business coach, working exclusively within the creative and digital sector. Specializing in helping agency owners and freelancers to find and attract high-value clients, Matt has been featured on podcasts alongside the likes of Seth Godin, Austin Kleon, Danielle La Porte, and many more. His international best-selling book Create and Prosper received critical acclaim from industry-leading figures and has been read by award-winning creatives across the globe.
LINKS
Create & Prosper: How to Find Your Dream Clients and Build a Freelance Business You Love (FREE COPY)
TRANSCRIPT
ep50: Thriving with Creative Courage -- Matt Essam
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[00:00:00] Voice Actor: Ann Coatney: Hi and welcome. The Artful Podcast is an interview show where you'll get to know the people behind the creative brands we love. These open, casual, and candid conversations will shed a light on what it's really like to reach your true potential with joy, fulfillment, and freedom. Presented by Artful and hosted by Gabe Ratliff, an award-winning artist, entrepreneur, and coach. Are you ready to create your artful life? If so, then tune in, turn up, and listen hard.
[00:01:05] Gabe Ratliff: Matt. Oh my gosh. Welcome, welcome, welcome to the Artful Podcast. I am so excited to have you here. Welcome, sir.
[00:01:14] Matt Essam: Thank you so much for having me.
How do you explain what you do?
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[00:01:16] Gabe Ratliff: So I wanted to start off just asking how you explain what you do, just to get, get us kind of started so people can understand you better.
[00:01:26] Matt Essam: Yeah. I think the easiest way to understand what we do in like real layman's terms is we are a coaching and consulting company that works exclusively with established agency owners who are kind of usually between two and 10 people, and we focus on helping them achieve more of three things. Freedom, fulfillment, and financial security.
[00:01:57] They're usually, when people tell us what they want at that stage of business, they can kind of fall into those three buck buckets. And so we tend to work with our clients initially over, say like a 12 month period. And we are looking at really fundamental things about their business that maybe they've just overlooked because they've grown very organically by just being very good at a specific skill set, like motion design or film or graphic design.
[00:02:25] And so they've built this agency to a point where it's okay, it's doing well. They've had some good clients, they've had some great, but they just feel like there's no escape from it like this. They're, they're in it and there's no way of getting out of it because they are the. And so like our, our aim really is to give them more of that freedom so they can actually, you know, spend time with family, do the things that they want to do outside of the business, more fulfillment.
[00:02:55] So actually getting to like pick and choose the projects they wanna work on and more financial security, because a lot of the time these people aren't even paying themselves a decent salary and sometimes they're not even paying themselves as much as they're paying like their senior members of stuff.
[00:03:08] So that's kind of what we do in like very layman's terms, easy to understand, kind of passes the ground test.
What was the defining moment in your life that made you choose to do this work?
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[00:03:17] Gabe Ratliff: What was the defining moment in your life where you made that choice to, to transition to this from, from your career? Cuz I know you were, you were actually running your own agency before. Do you wanna share a little bit about that and how you kind of got to that place?
[00:03:34] Matt Essam: Yeah, so I'd been running my own agency for a few years after leaving the corporate agency world and. I found that work tended to fall into one of two buckets. It was either really exciting, really creatively fulfilling, but never had much of a budget, or it was really well paid Budget was never a question, but it was quite monotonous work or work that we didn't feel that proud of or that wasn't really giving that much of an impact.
[00:04:04] And so a kind of young, slightly wet behind the ears version of me decided that I didn't want to be poor and eating pot noodles for the rest of my life cuz I'd already been a student. So I was like, I'm gonna just focus on the work that pays the bills and the way that I'm gonna get my fulfillment is I'm gonna go travel the world.
[00:04:24] And this was around about the time that, you know, the four hour work week had been quite popular and the, the phrase digital nomad had just been coined. And I thought that's what I wanna do. You know, I wanna travel the world and who cares if I'm doing these meaningless projects because I'm gonna. Just be traveling and I'll meet loads of cool people and that's what will giving me my excitement.
[00:04:44] And so I'd been doing this for about, probably only about eight months. Eight months to a year. And I had made my way around the world. I visited family in New Zealand, I made my way around the world to Canada. And I had been doing some snowboarding in the Canadian Rockies. And I remember this, you said to me like, was there a point, and I actually still remember it to this day.
[00:05:07] There was like a vivid point for me where I'm sat on the side of this mountain, it's like a Tuesday afternoon and I whip my phone out and I take this photo of me with kind of my feet strapped to my snowboard, overlooking this incredible view of the Rocky Mountains. And I start writing a caption for Instagram and I stop myself because I just have this real like feeling in my gut that I'm.
[00:05:37] Kind of lying to myself and I'm lying to the world. And the way that I'm doing that is I'm portraying to the world that I have this incredible lifestyle with this amazing business where I can travel the world and do all these amazing things. But the reality was, behind the scenes things weren't like that.
[00:05:57] And I had a bunch of clients that I didn't really feel respected me. They often didn't pay me on time. And I just kind of had this sense that I was basically still living like a student and escaped trying to escape from life. And I wasn't really facing up to the things that were important to me or like the dreams that I really had deep down. And unfortunately I had one of those kind of Steve Jobs moments where he says, you know, you get up every day and he looks at himself in the mirror and he asks himself, if this was the last day of my life, would I be doing. What I'm about to do today. And he says, if the answer is no for too many days in a row, that I know something needs to change.
[00:06:40] And for me, that literally happened in an instant because as I'm writing this caption on my phone, this message pops in from my mom and it just says, please call me as soon as you can. Which is like never a good message to get from your mom or like a family member when you're like halfway around the world.
[00:06:58] So I go, okay, you know, something about this doesn't feel too good. And so I kind of make my way back to this like hotel slash hostile thing that I'm staying in. And I get on the phone and I call my mom and she just says like a family friend has passed away really suddenly and unexpectedly and. You know, the family are obviously all in a little bit of shock and normally knows what to do. And I decide to come back home and I just have, I just go through that process that I'm sure a lot of people have actually gone through in the past couple of years, especially with the pandemic where we are kind of forced to face our truths.
[00:07:38] We're forced to face the reality of the situation. Like there is no more running away cuz there's nowhere to go. And so now I'm just sat back in the UK surrounded by a family and I just have this real perspective shift of what's actually important in life. You know, if I knew that I was gonna die in like two or three years, would I be doing this?
[00:08:01] And the answer was a resounding no. And for me, that was the moment where I decided I would rather be eating pot noodles. Be fulfilled and happy and doing work that was meaningful than traveling the world. Kind of trying to escape something and just finding a way to, to fund that lifestyle essentially.
[00:08:24] Gabe Ratliff: Hm. Wow, that's a lot.
[00:08:28] Matt Essam: Yeah.
[00:08:28] Gabe Ratliff: That's a lot. And I totally connect with that as well. I mean, I, we've talked before and, you know, I've shared some of my journey with, you know, my dad getting sick with cancer and everything, and, and it was the same thing. You know my partner and I, we had, you know, rented our house, sold our stuff, and were planning to travel.
[00:08:52] Same thing. And I was actually three years into my creative business and was actually starting to thrive. I was doing really well, six figures. I was like, ah, it's happening. And then we we're sitting at dinner and you know, all of a sudden we're having a conversation about how burn she is at her, the Fortune 50 company she'd been working at for about 10 years at that point.
[00:09:17] And we start having a conversation about, okay, how do I honor her when she honored me to start my own business? Yet we're thriving and you know, you generally have to be on set or in person and, you know, to do that kind of a thing. And I hadn't built it around being a digital nomad yet, and how to do that.
[00:09:36] What, what did that look like? All the things that have since transpired and, and worked themselves out or I figured them out. Right? Same thing, getting internal. And then we got two months in and the pandemic hit and you're just like, okay, let's do some deep work . So definitely connect with that. That's one of the things that I really personally connected with you on was that similar kind of journey and just how that's really I'm hearing more and more people going through that and that there's like this consciousness shift that's happening and people are getting really.
[00:10:18] Going inside and readdressing these things and are, are also recognizing to coming back to the work that you do that you all do. And going to that next level, you know, get breaking out of that order taker or even if you're at a corporate gig and just realizing like, this isn't for me cuz we've had time to address what's important.
How has that choice changed your life?
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[00:10:49] Gabe Ratliff: So I'm curious, like, how has that choice that you made and the work that you all are doing, you know, how has that changed your life since then?
[00:10:58] Matt Essam: I mean, it's changed it in every way because I now get to do something every day that not only do I love in the sense of I love the kind of work that I do, I suppose as a craft, but I get to show up authentically as myself, unapologetically, and I get to hang out with people. That I wouldn't have ever dreamed that even got to hang out with, let alone, that would've paid me significant sums of money to help them with their business and get to that next level.
[00:11:33] And it's almost as if the universe kind of rewards courage. It's like it tests you with these things and it gives you these two paths and gives you these two options. And deep down, you know, which is the one that's kind of like truly aligned with your soul, but it puts a load of obstacles in the way.
[00:11:55] And the way I look at it is like, that's the test. Like do you really want this? Are you willing to step forward without being able to see the whole staircase? Are you willing to create a life which is different from maybe the people around you or the things that people think are possible? Are you willing to, to do those things or are you gonna stay in this kind of.
[00:12:20] Confinement of conditioning that you've been given throughout your entire life.
[00:12:28] Gabe Ratliff: Oh man. Yeah, the mindset thing keeps coming up for me, especially, you know, like when, when I'm talking to clients, it, you can just feel this, it's like a, it's like the wall from Game of Thrones. It's this massive behemoth wall that's, it's like so big. You, you, they, it's like they, it's, they know it's there, but they can't really see over it and like, like see past it.
[00:12:58] Yet they know that there's something greater on the other side.
[00:13:04] Matt Essam: A hundred percent. We call it the resistance and it, and it just shows up at like every single level where you want to upgrade. So like anytime you get to that point in your life of like comfort where you're like, oh, I kind of get this thing now. It all makes sense to me. I feel pretty comfortable here.
[00:13:22] And then there's something that happens that just invites you to see like a new possibility. And it will always feel uncomfortable. There will always be some internal resistance. And the reason for that, and I've learned this recently, which has been absolutely fascinating to me, is actually related to our ego.
[00:13:40] It's like related to our sense of identity. Because you have to become another person in order to create a new life or a different way of being,
[00:13:53] right? You have to show up in the world as a different person in order to get different results. And most people, Aren't willing to do that because of how attached to their current identity or their current way of thinking that they, they are. And so that's actually what holds most people back is like, you know, one of my mentors has got this really simple concept that your current thinking creates your current results. And I've heard the, the quote before, like, you know, you can't fix your current problems with the same thinking that created them.
[00:14:24] And it's this idea that if you want to have a seven figure business doing work that you love, that's having the most impact in the world, you have to think and behave like somebody who has that thing before you physically have it. And that's the bit that people can't get their heads around. They want the thing to be present before they show up in that way.
[00:14:50] And it just doesn't work like that. And I think that's why such a small percentage of people actually have. The things not necessarily that they want, because I think a lot of people have what they want. I think that's why a lot of people aren't living to their full potential and making the level of impact that they wanna make because they're not willing to show up in their lives, or they haven't found a way to show up in their lives, which is in an alignment with who you have to be to make that level of.
[00:15:17] Gabe Ratliff: Mm. Oh, well, yeah, I mean that's, that's been a big eye-opening lesson for me as well to, to, to, and actually start to grasp that. I recently watched the series Atlas of the Heart that Brene Brown did on HBO and. One of the things that she gets into is it's the, the primary focus is around language and the way that we use language.
[00:15:43] And I thought it was, it's very similar. It's very, very similar, right? Cuz it's the language with ourselves. And she talks about how if, if you use one of the great examples was around the difference between stress and overwhelm. And we use overwhelm way too much because the difference is stress is like, I'm stressed, but I can, you know, I'm in the weeds as she talks about it, kind of from like the, the restaurant language, you know.
[00:16:06] But then there was another term for overwhelm of like, I'm blown, I'm toast. I gotta time out. I gotta, I gotta, eh, I'm out. And like other people would step in and kind of take over the tables and, and give each other a, a moment to just whatever you needed to do. You know, just step out and get some air, you know, whatever.
[00:16:26] And the interesting second part to that, that, that I felt it was worth bringing up is that she talks about also the language that we use is a self-fulfilling prophecy. So when we say I'm overwhelmed, we're literally saying, I'm overwhelmed. You're telling yourself where you are. And it's the same thing that you're talking about.
[00:16:46] What came up for me is that it's the same identity language, right, of like, I am this. And so if you're like, I am this order taker, freelancer, hunter, gatherer type person, and that's what I've been, that's what I will be, I will keep working for these clients that are driving me insane and asking for more and I'm not charging more, and I'm just taking it and working endless hours and all of that on and on and on and on.
[00:17:16] And it's just like this self-fulfilling prophecy. And then the next day is the same thing and it's an easily slippery slope to, to kind of like maybe miss that you're doing it and that you're giving them that space and permission. And so I just I thought that was kind of a nice addition to what you were speaking to.
[00:17:35] I'm there. Do you have any thoughts about that?
[00:17:37] Matt Essam: Yeah. I think actually the more I've learned about psychology and philosophy, the more I've realized what valuable tools they are for business owners and obviously in life in general. I, I wish that we were taught more about that stuff in school, but even just the concept set that was introduced years ago by, I think, Decar or, yeah, it's probably Decar, right?
[00:18:06] And like it's this sense that like there is no, there isn't really a you, like there is no you, like, everything is just one thing. And any time we start labeling that like I am, it's like I, I am overwhelmed. Really? I thought you were Gabe.
[00:18:22] Gabe Ratliff: Right.
[00:18:23] Matt Essam: Yeah. Or like or are you Gabe though? Or is that just like a name that you've identified with?
[00:18:28] And it starts getting really high level and philosophical, but when people realize that they aren't any of those things and that those things are the exact things that are actually keeping them stuck and standing in their way is liberating for people because people realize that it's just the story that they've been telling themselves about who they are, and they have the power to change that story anytime they want.
[00:18:56] And it's not easy, it doesn't just like happen overnight, but when you realize, when you have that shift, it's like the matrix. Once you take that pill, you can't un. And you catch your internal dialogue going, oh, well I'm just not that kind of person, or I'm not very good with people, or I'm not confident.
[00:19:14] Well, yeah, like if you identify with that, there's a lot of research to suggest that our behavior very, very rarely deviates from who we believe we are. And so if you show, if you believe you are that person, you will show up in the world as that person and you will get the results that those people get. And so, like you said, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy and people can try and change the actions. They do this thing, you know, this like motivational thing where they're like grip their teeth and they go, I'm gonna go every day to the gym and cuz I'm gonna wake up at 5:00 AM and, and do all this stuff.
[00:19:51] Right.
[00:19:52] And it works for a while, but it, they just go back to the old way of doing things because they identify in their head as someone who doesn't really like the gym. And they're doing it because they read a book and got a bit of motivation and did all this stuff. It only really changes until they identify with someone who is the type of person who gets up at 5:00 AM and goes to the gym cuz that's who I am and that type of person I am into my health and fitness.
[00:20:20] I am a healthy person. Like that's when the real change actually occurs, as soon as we create that identity. And so without that, there is no real fundamental change. There is no real systemic change. And I think that's ultimately what leads to not only a lot of business problems, but a lot of problems in the world in general because people can't get out of that narrative of who they are and, and their beliefs that they're attached to.
[00:20:46] And so nothing ever really changes because even if things change externally, they just go back to that space because people are so strongly held onto those beliefs and that identity about, you know, I'm a Republican, or I'm this or I'm that. It's like. Well, you're not like, we are all just this thing. We are all just like consciousness.
[00:21:09] All of these other things that have been fed into our brain are just concepts. Like they don't really exist. And so kind of just looping back to your point, and I suppose ultimately to, to where we started this conversation about this journey is the only thing that allows you to let go of all of that stuff thinking about death. In my experience, like that's the only real thing that shifts that perspective when you realize this is a finite experience because then all of a sudden all of the important stuff really comes to the surface and you realize it's not about your political views or how much money you earn or where you live or any of those things that you've built into your identity.
[00:21:57] It's about feelings. It's about the feeling of connection. It's about the feeling of significance. It's about the feeling of contribution, and we can all get those things whenever we want, if we just allow ourselves to experience them.
[00:22:12] Gabe Ratliff: Mm. Preach to me Brother . That was a whole lot of awesome. There's a mic drop in there for sure. I mean the, yeah, there were, there were a whole lot of things that came up in there. The I mean the, the, the sense of of of that contribution and the connection and the, and the feeling. It's so interesting cuz I find often that a lot of people, it's, and I did this with myself.
[00:22:45] I wasn't even asking the question, you know, it's like when people say like, what do you want? So many people are like, I don't know. And you're like, oh, are you gonna ask, you know, like, are you gonna answer that? Are you gonna give yourself the space to just ask and answer for yourself? Like, even if it's, it's like they're afraid that it's gonna be the wrong answer.
[00:23:05] Matt Essam: Yeah. Well that's the thing, right? I think when you, when we're dealing with the kind of people that we are talking about, who I would probably label as like high performers, high achievers, people that have like built businesses to a certain level or got to a certain place in their career creatively where they've mastered that skill.
[00:23:24] I think the problem for a lot of those people is they do know what they want, but they almost don't give themselves permission to want it because they're like, cuz people always say to me like, oh well there's this thing, but I dunno if that's realistic or like what's realistic. And people are almost like looking to me to tell them what's realistic.
[00:23:43] Well, what's realistic is what's currently in your experience. Like that's reality. That is the realistic what you want and what is reality are two different things. And it's like you have to know or give yourself permission to want those things in order to create a new reality. There is no, there is no like border or boundary that's just set.
[00:24:09] And someone, someone said to me the other day, they were like, well, what happens when you just keep going? Cuz one of my clients was like, well, I'd like a business that was like 50 million and kind of like seeing how I'd react. I was like, okay, cool. What next? And she was like, well, where does it stop? And I was like, well, it doesn't, that's why we have people on the world like Elon Musk who's trying to go to Mars, right?
[00:24:27] It's like it doesn't stop. There is no limit to the human potential imagination. Like that's the cool thing about it. That's what. We want to explore because ultimately as creatives, I believe we are here to solve problems with our creativity. Like that's what creativity's for. It's not just to paint nice pictures and to make nice music.
[00:24:47] Like that's great. We love that process of creation. People love consuming those things. But ultimately, like on a bigger level, if you look at anything, film, music, it's all about the message. It's all about the movement. It's all about the community. It's all about the connection. It's not just about the fact that that song sounds nice or that painting looks good.
[00:25:09] And like that was the shift for me because I saw it as that when I was running my creative agency, it was like, eh, it's just a nice to have. Why does creativity matter? And one of my mentors started to encourage me to really dig on that. Like, why does that matter? Why does that matter? And I went deeper and deeper and deeper until I was like, shit, like creativity. Is the only thing that really differentiates us, differentiates us from other species, like our ability to, to imagine a different future and then find ways to realize that future or create that future is the thing that separates us from every other species on the planet. So maybe part of why we are here and why we exist is to use that creativity to solve problems and advance our species so that we can survive and do all these things and have all of these needs met.
[00:26:10] So that was like a, a really big shift for me, and one of the reasons why I work with the creative industries and these creative people is because there is so much talent there. You know, they have spent years honing this craft, learning how to solve these complex problems, and then they're. Churning out a logo for a cigarette brand.
[00:26:32] It's like, ah, what are you doing? Like, so wasted. There's this whole industry of just like waste and nonsense and meaningless shit. That's like getting churned out into the world. Let's use that to do something good, like let's, let's use it to actually solve like a meaningful problem in the world. I've gotta be careful that I'm not just getting on my soapbox and renting on this podcast, but I feel like it's easy to do with like a, like mind.
[00:26:56] And you know, we're both from the same page.
[00:26:58] Gabe Ratliff: Yeah,
[00:26:59] Matt Essam: like, Jesus, this guy is a preaching man.
[00:27:02] Gabe Ratliff: Well, I, you know, I'm actually, that's one of the things that heard. . And also that's one of the things, you know, I, I feel like this is the opportunity to share this message so that others can have the space and permission to join and be a part of it. To your point, right? Like it, it comes back to that point of what you're just speaking to.
[00:27:29] And that's part of this is to say, Hey, there are allies out here. We also agree. One of the things I talk about often with people in our sessions is like, we are in a time of, to, to what you were discuss describing earlier, it's like growing pains. I completely liken it to growing pains. I actually we just leveled up my my fitness program for the month and it's gotten way harder and.
[00:27:58] I, I, I actually am like really sore and I reached out and I did the things, I did stretches and all this stuff, and I do yoga and all those things during every morning. And, and I, and I reached out to my coach and was like, Hey, I, you know, I did this. I drank water, I stretched, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Do you have any suggestions?
[00:28:14] He's like, it's just growing pains, you know? He's like, you did the things. It's just growing pains. And it, and it, and it, it reminded me, this was just last night. And it, and it really is so related to what we do in our business and in life. You know, this conversation, it's all connected. Like you were saying, like we're all, it's all connected.
[00:28:36] How we show up, how we want to show up is, is how we evolve. I mean, and we're seeing like the government has to just go this way for a second. The government has kind of, I feel, made mistakes and failed us in ways. At least, you know, here in the States I, I don't wanna speak for England but the, the, you know, there have been these mistakes made, this like divisiveness and all this stuff that's been churned up and created and enabled and it's created this, this rift that they intentionally wanted.
[00:29:14] Meanwhile, there's so many of us that are just out here working hard as business owners as humans to evolve and going through these growing pains, like taking what happened over the last few years and been like, you know what? I do understand what's important to me. I do understand, you know, what I care about.
[00:29:34] I do want to be a part of this community. I do want to make an impact. I do want to contribute because those are the important things. And so, you know, there is a, there is a bit of a soapbox, but it's also like, hey, it's, it's a, it's like a megaphone out to people to say like, Hey, you're not alone.
[00:29:54] you're not alone and you are enough. It's really up to you to help how enough you want to be. Like, what, what is that limit? You know, what is that limitless permission that, that you know, that you really do want. It's so funny cuz I've had the same thing when I'm talking to clients and it's like, no, no.
[00:30:13] They'll be like, oh man, that's what I really want. And I'm like, what's been holding you back? Like, okay, that's what you want. Okay, well then let's put that down in your goals and, and let's explore it. You know, it's like, why, why hold that back? What, what
[00:30:25] is the, you know? Oh, it's not, it's like you said, it's not realistic.
[00:30:29] Matt Essam: Yeah. And also people, I think there's a good little segue there in to talk about people's standards, because people often say to me like, oh, all I really want is just to be able to pay the bills, or I just wanna be able to do this thing. And it's like, is that what you want? Or is that the like level you set yourself of like toleration. You'll get what we tolerate. So what you have right now is essentially what you will tolerate. If you wouldn't tolerate it, then you wouldn't have it. And there's this amazing shift that's happened for some of our clients in the past, especially when they're at level from freelancer and they want to go and build an agency and they can't get past these kind of like eight k, nine k months, and they've just been stuck at that ceiling and sometimes lower and, and you go, well, what's, what's your standard?
[00:31:20] And they realize that they're stuck there because they've told themselves that's all they need. Like that's their baseline. As long as I'm doing that, then everyone's happy and I can pay the bills and put food on the table and yada, yada. It's like, okay, what do you need in order to really have the impact that you want to have or do the things that you want to do?
[00:31:40] And it's almost like there's this belief there that in some way that's selfish or greedy or unnecessary. And so what we help them to do is we reset their thermostat so that instead of now AK being the thing that they must have, which is currently what it is, because no matter what happens, they always seem a way to find it no matter how like difficult it is or whatever.
[00:32:08] They always seem to find that every month. So their lowest months are always, they never go below that. Now we just need to reset the thermostat so that that's now 12 K or 15 K, and you just see this mindset shift that, oh yeah, if I'm gonna bring in the right talent to deliver this project, or if I'm gonna be able to really have full creative input, I need a budget of 50 K from a client, not 30 K.
[00:32:36] And it's just what their standards are, what they will tolerate and what they accept. And that shift for people is massive because if your baseline all of a sudden becomes, whether it's money, fitness, relationships, whatever it is, if that is your baseline, what you will not tolerate less than that, no matter what happens, then that's what you will get.
[00:33:02] And so it's about enabling people to turn up that dial and saying, now, do you know what, like this thermostat now doesn't go below 60 degrees. Like there's no way, like, you know, when you turn up a thermostat, the, as soon as it goes down, the air conditioning comes on and like that's what a business is like.
[00:33:21] As soon as we don't have a 30 K or a 60 K or 80 K project in the pipeline, boom, we're, we're back out doing the thing that we know that we can do, which is building relationships and finding problems to solve. The problem is, most people's tolerance is way too low for that. Cause they're like, well, we're still gonna be able to pay the bills.
[00:33:41] You know we'll just prepare ourselves a little bit less this month if we don't get the right clients because they know that that is their baseline.
[00:33:51] Gabe Ratliff: I hope you all are listening. You might wanna rewind this and listen to that again, because that was another gem. Thank you, Matt. That was amazing. Because that's, it's very true. It's very, very, very true because that there's such an ebb and flow to this industry that, that occurs constantly for so many people.
[00:34:14] I mean, that is a, it's a norm that I, I love how laser focused you are at, at changing that norm in the industry, and and commend you for that.
What’s the most important thing creative business owners should do today?
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[00:34:33] Gabe Ratliff: I wanted to ask, like, what, what's something re related to that? What's something like you would say is like, the most important thing that creative business owners or, you know, freelancers, solopreneurs, what have you, creative professionals, what, what, what's something you think would be like the most important thing for them to do today? To just get, to make that shift or to actually take action and do something? What's something they could take away?
[00:35:02] Matt Essam: Well, I guess it, the problem with giving advice around that is it all depends on, What they want. Right? So I think the first thing is like getting really clear on what you actually want. Not what you think is realistic, not what you think is possible, not what your partner wants for you, not what your parents taught you should do.
[00:35:25] Like what do you actually want? And taking some time to really reflect on that. And the best way that I know to get clarity on that is asking yourself the question, if I only had three years to live, money was no object, I knew I couldn't fail and no one would judge me, what would I be doing? So it's kind of four criteria built into that.
[00:35:50] So I only have three years to live, which gives you that timeframe. Money's no object. Like I don't have to worry about money, no one's gonna judge me and I know I can't fail. What am I doing? And that usually for people, reveals their. Their deepest wants, their deepest desires. And then you can just work back from that.
[00:36:13] Because once you know that, it's always an emotion. People come up with the logistical stuff, right? Oh, I would go traveling and I would do this, and I would do that. Okay. Then what would you do? Oh, well, I'd probably work for a charity. Okay, cool. Tell me more about that. And what you'll find is that you keep digging and you keep digging.
[00:36:33] Why? Why is that important to you? Why is that important to you? And what will eventually come out is that they want a feeling, well, I want feel like I'm making a difference. I wanna, I wanna feel like my life had some kind of significance. I want to feel connected to people. I wanna feel, you know, a sense of importance.
[00:36:53] Whatever it is, it's always a feeling. And there's really good news about that. And the good news is that we can create feelings whenever we want. But the problem is we all have different rules for when we're allowed to feel certain things. If you are a football fan I know football is different in America, but it doesn't matter any sport, right?
[00:37:14] And you support a certain team, your rules around feeling good are when that team scores or when that team wins. That's your rule about when you're allowed to feel good and so that team wins the Super Bowl and for days or weeks you are on a massive high, right? Someone else has experienced that exact same event, but they had a rule about the other team and therefore they feel crap. And so the problem is that we all have the ability to experience these things every single day. We've just been conditioned with rules that say you're allowed to be happy when you're allowed to feel successful, when you're allowed to feel connected when, and so when you understand what you actually want, those emotions, the next part is to figure out how do I get those today? Not in five years, 10 years when I've built this business, not when I've retired, and I can travel, not when, yada, yada, yada. Like, how can I get more of this feeling today? How can I feel more connected today? How can I feel like I'm making a difference? How can I feel a sense of impact and contribution?
[00:38:22] Like what are some ways that if I gave myself permission, I would allow myself to feel more of that thing today. Because then everything you do is an amplification and we're operating from a place of abundance. Like everything I'm doing is being fueled and amplified for more impact, for more connection, for more significance, rather than the things that I'm doing, I'm doing as a means to an end in hope that someday I'm gonna get that feeling.
[00:38:50] Because any millionaire or famous actor or superstar will tell you that when you get there, you don't have more of that thing. You don't have. More significance maybe temporarily, right? You get an Oscar and you get that buzz of like, oh, I'm really significant. I won this thing. And then time goes on and it, and you're back to standard, your standard operating emotions every day. And so people go through life making decisions based on things that they think are gonna give them that feeling. Rather than just figuring out what is that feeling that I actually want and what are some ways, every single day I can make sure that I experience that thing. And for me, that is the definition of a fulfilling and creative life.
[00:39:35] Cuz those opportunities are around us like every single day. We don't have to wait for some point in the future. And when, when you arrive at that, the beauty of it is that you realize that if you build a business from that space where you're getting those values and needs met every day, then your business is just an amplification of that.
[00:39:56] More money is just an amplification of that. Like more talent, more. Better projects, whatever are just an amplification of that versus work, work, work, work, work. Kind of not feeling happy, not feeling like I'm getting those things. Then temporarily get that thing that you said you wanted that was gonna give you happiness.
[00:40:13] Have that emotion briefly, and then go back to work, work, work, work, work. Next thing, next goal, and like have these little spikes throughout your life of, oh, that was great for a minute, and then now I'm back to the baseline. So that's a very long and convoluted way to say that basically what you need to do if you're running a creative business or you're running a you know, creative profession, what you need to do is figure out what your core values in bracket's, emotions are that you want to experience and like why you are doing these things.
[00:40:44] Whatever this thing is that you are doing, are you doing it for the right reason essentially?
[00:40:52] Gabe Ratliff: It's man, again, so much came up there. I mean, one of the first things I started to think about was not too long ago, I watched the, the new season with David Letterman, and I know there's been a lot of kerfuffle about the whole Oscar slap and everything, but I watched Will Smith's because I'm actually a big fan of him.
[00:41:13] I have been ever since way back with Fresh Prince. Musically and the show because that show was, that was a game changer show in a lot of ways. The way that they got into conflict and connection and family and a lot of really tough topics.
[00:41:31] Matt Essam: Yeah. And his YouTube series, by the way, was it like a, a build on that? I dunno if you saw that. It was called like My, the Best Shape Ever or something.
[00:41:39] He did like a YouTube series. Yeah, you should check that out. Anyway, sorry to interrupt, but yeah, like it, I, I've seen the Letterman thing and I've seen that and they're very, Closely tied, and I think the reason was a shift for him is cuz it shows like his vulnerable side, right?
[00:41:53] Gabe Ratliff: Mm, yeah, I'll check that out cuz So you've seen the, the, the Letterman interview? Yeah. Okay. Because that immediately came up for me when we were talking about that because he languages it so well, and he's such a great example of achievement.
[00:42:08] Matt Essam: Mm
[00:42:09] Gabe Ratliff: Right, because he's achieved in music, he's achieved in film, he's achieved in life.
[00:42:14] You know, just so many different things. He wrote his book. I mean, he just, he's like hit all of these things and he got really vulnerable in his book and he still could not, it wasn't enough. And it was when he went inside and started to really get deep with himself and what he want, like you said, I, I feel like that's such a great clarification around what is the feeling you want to have?
[00:42:40] Like what is it that you really deep inside are, are craving and inevitably it comes back down to those a few things you were talking about, right. Connection, contribution, right. That the feeling of like, I'm a part of something because you are , it's actually the not being connected to the thing that you're connected to, is that, that de detachment from that we are one consciousness and that we are just this one.
[00:43:10] Experiment that's unfolding every day in new and wonderful ways. And by that kind of fighting it and saying, no, I, this is what I have been trained and taught to do. I am this right. And just getting so stuck on labels and that actually defines you and makes you more powerful. Meanwhile, it's actually detaching from that connection and that opportunity to contribute and actually feel what you really, really do want to feel.
[00:43:40] So I thought it was a wonderful example of that and thought I would mention that to people in case they haven't seen it. Cuz regardless of the, that moment of human emotion that he showed because of the, you know, his need to support his partner something that was really obviously a touchy subject There's still a human there that's really trying to live their best life.
[00:44:11] And I thought was a great example of that.
[00:44:13] Matt Essam: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Absolut.
[00:44:15] Gabe Ratliff: You know, another thing I was gonna touch on that, that was a big aha for me that might be relevant to people, was that I also had to co I came to this realization of that there were certain, again, these, these labels to my crafts. I had been developing and spending years on specifically like in video production, media production.
[00:44:39] I was in that for years. Studied it in college at university, and I, I, I realized that in the, doing the work, there was some trauma there for me because I had devoted so much to it. And like the, you know, the 60 to 70 hour weeks and the grueling life that, that craft. Generally has attached to it. And getting to this place of like, that doesn't have to be me.
[00:45:05] That doesn't, again, doesn't have to be my definition of me and how I show up with my business. It, I can evolve, my business can evolve, and that's okay because they do. And letting go of that was massive to then again, giving that permission. And that's my own personal journey. But I feel like it's extremely relevant because it's looking at like, what, what is this true?
[00:45:29] Does, do I need to hold onto this because of whatever I felt like was this choice I had made with my craft and, you know, my, my passion for it and, and lovings to tell stories and all of those things that are attached to that. And then going, oh, wait a second. That's not true. I am more than that.
[00:45:52] Right. I am, I am more and. Allowing that. And I find that that's also this other block is that there's not this allowance of like, Hey, I can let that go. You know, I've been a DJ for 25 years, but that doesn't mean I'm still DJing on the weekends. And like all of the stuff that comes along with that, having to go out and support in the community and all that stuff, it's like I can still have my own connection to music and sharing that with others.
[00:46:20] Right? And it's just how we engage with it. What do we, how do we we were talking about that before the beginning of the, of the show, how we both love music and we connected with it in our own ways. And it's like, that's fine. That's enough.
[00:46:34] Matt Essam: Yeah, and what's interesting is like the more you surrender to the innate feeling, Of what is right for you the more you actually experience the things that you wanted. So I'll give you a really tangible example. Before I started this coaching business, I was at a point in my life where I was doing five or six things.
[00:46:55] I was running a digital marketing kind of consultancy that I'd evolved into. I was running a record label. I was producing music and DJing. I was doing some photography events still. So there was like four, maybe even five things that I was kind of making money from and oh, well I love this and I love that and I dunno which one to let go because I've been doing this for so long and all these things.
[00:47:23] And people, especially creatives, often come to me with this dilemma of like, you know, I've got all these things going, but I don't wanna let anyone go cuz that one makes money, but that one's gives me fulfillment. And that one gives me connection. And when you realize that actually what you are seeking from those things is the emotion, it's not the fact that thing gives you money, but that really gives you as a sense of security, you know, that like you can pay the bills.
[00:47:45] Right? That's what that's really about. That one yeah. Is about the fact that you enjoy it and you get connection and yada yada. When you surrender to the kind of internal message, I suppose that is saying, go here, go in this direction. What I find is that if you can. Compress your focus. So it's a singular point of focus to move your business in that direction.
[00:48:14] You end up experiencing more of those things. So I'll tell you how that played out for me. So love music into music, specifically electronic stuff. One of our clients that we signed last year was like an audio production agency, and one of the founders is actually quite a well known DJ here in the uk and he does some shows and things like that.
[00:48:39] Now, I got to spend a whole year talking to them about some of the biggest record labels in the world. Biggest music, electronic music artists in the world, and the intricacies and the ins and outs of those business. Now, I wouldn't have even got that opportunity if I had grown the record label consistently for the last six or seven years, or got really good at DJing or whatever, which I couldn't have done all at the same time anyway.
[00:49:05] And so by having that singular focus and actually following the thing that intuitively feels is right, you end up attracting more of those people into your experience anyway. And I, I'm living basically the dream because not only do I get to still experience that connection with music and the music industry and all of the stuff that excites me, I'm actually getting paid to coach and consult and advise those people.
[00:49:31] So I get the kind of significant element that I was probably getting from DJing in front of a bunch of people and making everybody dance. And it's like the skill that I, I think is a thing that people. Really need to focus on mastering is how do I get all of my values met in one vehicle, not multiple vehicles.
[00:49:59] Gabe Ratliff: Ladies and gentlemen, yet another mic drop just occurred. Rewind to listen to that one again. All your values in one vehicle. Mm.
[00:50:14] Matt Essam: And for me, that vehicle is business. I think business is the most powerful vehicle for change. I think it's the most powerful vehicle for security. Like a lot of my mentors, I always hear them say, you know, people talk about Bitcoin, people talk about property, blah, blah, blah. They're like, the one thing that I can never find that is as good a return on investment as any of those things is business. Business is the best return on investment that you will ever have compared to the time, money and energy you put in and what you are able to build. If you can bring all of those things together and have that single focus, like whether it is investing in coaching and you're like, oh, I just paid 10 grand for my coach, he made me a hundred grand last year.
[00:50:56] Okay, well where else can you get that return on investment in the market? You know, like, okay, we just bought on this employee and before we were spending 20 hours a week and I was stressed out on burnout out, we just bought on this employee and they now take care of all of that stuff when they're rocking it and I can take my weekends off to spend with my family.
[00:51:15] Like where else can you find that level of return in investment? Like business for me is the vehicle for change, especially small business and creativity. And I think unfortunately it's had a bad rep in the creative space because of the commercial aspect of it and cuz it's all tied in with money and everything like that and, and I used to hate.
[00:51:35] Not hate business, but I definitely had a stigma in my head about it. I thought it was accountants and men in suits and corporate stuff, right? When I actually learned from people who had built impactful businesses where they were doing things they loved and doing stuff that I admired, I was like, ah, actually, there's some fundamental things that if you get these right, this vehicle of business can be fun, it can be impactful, it can be financially rewarding, it can help you connect with people like it's, it's an incredible vehicle for, for changing the world in general, but also changing in our own personal lives.
What question didn’t I ask that you wished I had?
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[00:52:16] Gabe Ratliff: Hmm. I wonder, is there a question that maybe I haven't an asked you yet a topic that you'd love to address that we haven't touched on as we start to wind down the.
[00:52:30] Matt Essam: Yeah, that's a great question. The only thing I was gonna mention is like an idea that has kind of been floating around in my head for a while now, and I think it's probably gonna be my next book. And it's this concept quite inspired by the work of people like Brene Brown. But it's this concept of creative courage because all of the people that I've interviewed, who I've worked with, so previous clients one of the main things that we hear from them when we say, you know, what's been your biggest takeaway?
[00:53:04] What's changed in your business? It often comes down to these things are all great, we've made more money, we've done this, we've done that. But what really has been the transformation? The level of confidence I now have in my business, in my pricing, in my whatever. Right? And what's interesting is like confidence is the outcome. But the thing that created that, the mechanism is courage. The one thing they all have in common is they had the courage to say no. They had the courage to quote Ohio fee. They had the courage to even commission me and my team as, as of coaches and people to come in, even though they didn't know exactly what the outcome was gonna be.
[00:53:50] They had the courage to like, take that step forward, do that internal work. That's, that's what it's ultimately about. And I think it's a concept, it's an idea. It's. Probably some kind of like brand creative courage. It's quite catchy. And I've looked, and there's not that many people that seem to be like using those two combination of words, but it's, I think it's something like a phrase to keep in the back of your mind as you're building your business, as you're going out into the world and creating, it's like, am I doing this in a way that's courageous?
[00:54:22] Like, am I playing a bigger game or am I playing small here? So like, am I showing up with courage? Am I doing the things that I know are really gonna get me the results? Am I having the hard conversations? And if the answer's no, then probably you are not reaching your full potential. And probably it's a sign that whatever you are resisting, being courageous about is the way forward for you.
[00:54:50] Gabe Ratliff: Mm. That brings up a couple of things for me. I, I, I, I heard recently this wonderful concept around how what we envy is really what we want. And a lot of people take the envy and turn it into something to like, like, it's like, oh, they, it's, the grass is greener, right? And it's, it. What they have is, is, is what I want and better.
[00:55:14] But then it starts to get this like resentment that can, can manifest. And we've seen that all over the world in the past few years. And it's like, you know, you had this or you know, I don't ha it's like I don't have, or they have, it's this constant, and it's, it's totally related what we were talking about earlier, like the Will Smith and those kind of examples of like, it's not about any of that.
[00:55:35] It's about what's inside and then that contribution and connection to the world and to others. And, and it's, and it's so interesting how it's really that simple, but it's just such a block for people. But that it comes from that, like that, that envy is also similarly, like what is essentially what you're being called to, as long as you give yourself that, that permission to like go after it. The courage, right. To your, to your point.
[00:56:05] Matt Essam: I think it is very much a creative condition. One of my friends, a guy called Ben Talon, is a very talented illustrator, done some cool work. He's got a podcast called The Creative Condition Podcast. And the reason I like the title for that is because I do find that creatives in general tend to have a lot more going on in their head, like constantly, you know, it's, we are the sort of people who. Almost have a prerequisite to have to do that work. Like I've met entrepreneurs in the past and even, you know, I'd argue like my parents and some of my family just, they just don't think that deeply about some of these things. You know, it's just like, that's how life is. It's kind of black and white. I just get on with it and I'm going through my day and like you could argue that maybe they're avoiding exploring something, but they just genuinely don't see the point in it.
[00:56:58] Whereas I think, especially the people that I attract into to our experience as, as a business, it's, it's often people who really have some of that work to do and have maybe been resisting it up until this point and they kind of know that it's there and they joke about it and they say, oh yeah, you know, well I'm just, you know, a kind of introverted person and they laugh or you know, they say some of these things and they probably know that they're not really that person.
[00:57:28] They've maybe just been told that they're that person throughout their whole life growing up and. A lot of this stuff that we're all talking about, Gabe, I think the like overarching theme, whether it's like the envy stuff that you just mentioned, or whether it's the resistance that we have to push through to take our business to the next level, the thing that it all has in common is it's actually probably a lot more spiritual than most people give credit for.
[00:57:55] And when I say spiritual, what I mean is like, it's not just as simple as thinking, like thinking isn't gonna solve the problem. And I think as creatives, we love to think we are under the illusion that we can think our way out of something. And what happens is we stay in our heads instead of shifting that conscious down into our body, into our heart, into our gut.
[00:58:17] And that's, that's really where the truth is, right? That's really where the work comes from. That's where all of that stuff lives. It doesn't live up here in our thinking conscious brain. It's. Deeply programmed. It's coming from wounds. It's, there's a lot of science now that suggests that the body holds a lot of trauma, psychological trauma, and holds a lot of emotion.
[00:58:41] And that's why things like breath work are so powerful and, and so important. But actually they're kind of wounds, right? So like when, when we say we're envious of that person and it turns into something negative, or especially what I've been noticing a lot in my life recently is like things that trigger me.
[00:58:59] So someone does something and I'm like, oh, that's so inconsiderate. Or like, that really frustrates me or whatever. I'm like, okay, let's just pause for a second. Like, what is that actually about? Cuz there is no them, there is only you that that person is doing that thing, but your response to it is coming from you.
[00:59:19] And so it's like having the courage. To go into that because it's, it's not an easy thing or a comfortable thing to do. To go into that and examine how am I like that person? How have I been like that person in the past? What part of me wants to be more like that person? Secretly, that's like some uncomfortable stuff.
[00:59:41] That's some uncomfortable stuff to face. But honestly I think it just, it impacts everything. Like it impacts your entire life, your entire way of being. And especially in business when it's something as simple as raising your prices and you go, it's as simple. Just raise your prices and people just can't bring themselves to do it, and they just live in this thing of fear.
[01:00:02] It's like, okay, where's that coming from? What really is that about? Cause it's not about the price, it's not about that client. It's not about that employee. Like what is that within you that can't make peace with raising your prices by. A thousand or firing that employee or having that difficult conversation with a shareholder who you no longer want in your business.
[01:00:29] Like where is that resistance? And for me, that's the courage because if you can break through that, then you see this whole new world, like you're saying about this wall right at the beginning, that your clients have when you, when you climb up, that literally using the metaphor cause it's kind of what it's like, oh, going into this like sludge of uncomfortableness.
[01:00:49] You're climbing up the wall is really hard, and then you see over the other side you go, holy moly, that is an incredible world out there that I haven't given myself permission to experience because I've been too afraid to climb up this wall. But now I'm here. Now I've pushed through that. I've had the difficult conversation.
[01:01:10] I understand why that thing's triggering me. I've done the work to detach my personal trauma from my value as a creative. Now all of a sudden, this whole world of possibility exists that I couldn't even see before. Cause the war was just so tall.
[01:01:29] Gabe Ratliff: Hmm. Matt, I could talk to you for hours, buddy. I love conversing with you ever since we first met and, and we've interacted. I just, I love conversing with you and, and and hearing your thoughts on things and how you concisely can speak through ideas. I want to shift to kind of a fun question here, if that's okay as we wind down, um,
[01:01:57] Matt Essam: be super serious the whole time. Again, if we're not talking about deep introspective shit, then this podcast is useless.
[01:02:07] Gabe Ratliff: And done. That's it. No more kids
[01:02:11] Matt Essam: hit record now. Yeah,
[01:02:14] Gabe Ratliff: Oops. Oh gosh.
Tell us something we don’t know about you.
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[01:02:16] Gabe Ratliff: I was just gonna ask, you know, would you mind sharing something that's, you know, maybe we don't know about you? That would be like a fun fact or a fun story,
[01:02:25] Matt Essam: Mm. Okay. Something you don't know about me, that might be a fun fact or a fun story. Wow. Too many probably I, once the, the, the thing that just pops into my mind, which I'm just gonna share, I dunno why this popped into my mind, but once for my 20th birthday when I was a student, we have a thing here in Leeds in England, and it's called the Ottley Run.
[01:02:51] And so it's basically like this long road that goes from like the north part of the town all the way down into the city. And it's a tradition, right? People come from all over the country to do it, and it's basically a pub crawl, but it's. These really old school English pubs. So you get these like old men in there with cigars and you know, like drinking pints of bitter and stuff.
[01:03:14] But the, the tradition is that you, when you do this pub crawl, you have to be in fancy dress. So if you drive along the Ottley Road on like a Thursday, Friday, or Saturday, you have literally hundreds and hundreds of people walking down this road in all kinds of fancy dress, like the Mario Brothers. Like you name it, someone's dressed as it, right?
[01:03:38] So if you are driving through leads like unbeknown to this phenomenon, you just think like, what the hell is going on? One minute, it's like this English countryside, and next minute there's Mario and Luigi coming out of the pub. Like, so there's this thing. And so as students, like you have to do it at least once, maybe twice, and people.
[01:03:57] Just tend to do it as a, as like a birthday thing. And so on my 20th birthday, I said to one of my friends at the time, I was like, I wanna do an oddly run, but I can't think of a theme. And so one of my friends came up with a theme and it's like the most genius theme that I've ever seen or ever known since.
[01:04:14] So the idea was that I dressed up as the birthday boy in this giant banana costume, like literally like six foot three banana. And all of my friends dressed up as monkeys, right? And so and so we're, we are going down the Iran and someone made up this rule that every pub we go to, I get like a minute head start and I have to run to the next.
[01:04:42] And the challenge was, could the monkeys catch me? So, and we started quite early and I vividly remember getting into like the second or third pub, and there was hardly anyone in there. And I burst through the doors dressed in this giant banana outfit, totally out of breath, walk up to the bar just about could I have a pin pint of beer, please?
[01:05:03] And before I could even finish a sentence about 12 monkeys came in behind me and rugby tackled me to the floor. So for some reason, that was the first story that came to my mind.
[01:05:18] Gabe Ratliff: Oh, that's awesome. I can just totally see That that
[01:05:21] Matt Essam: Yeah,
[01:05:22] Gabe Ratliff: sounds
[01:05:22] like my
[01:05:23] Matt Essam: the best, was the look on the the old guy's face. It just kind of one of those things,
[01:05:27] Gabe Ratliff: Yeah.
[01:05:27] Matt Essam: that's another one, like with the tanker of beer, just watching this banana get rugby tackled by 12 monkeys.
[01:05:36] Gabe Ratliff: Oh my gosh.
Where can people find you online?
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[01:05:38] Gabe Ratliff: So where can people find you online if they want to connect?
[01:05:43] Matt Essam: Yeah, well, luckily I've got quite a unique name, so if you literally just search for Matt Essam E s s a m, then all of my kind of socials and website and everything comes up. I'm probably most active on LinkedIn at the moment. I'm, I'm quite enjoying the, the LinkedIn platform. But as a bit of a gift to your listeners, you can actually get a free copy of my book.
[01:06:06] So if you go to create hyphen prosper.com they can download, it's only an electronic copy. We haven't found a way to get physical copies out to the usa just yet. It's a bit of a logistical nightmare, but if they've got like a Kindle or just download the PDF and read it on their computer they can grab a copy.
[01:06:26] So like, yeah, if the stuff that we talked about today resonated with you, then the book definitely will. And it's basically a, a load. All the stuff we talk about today in a, in a bit more detail. It's called Create and Prosper. I think it's the subtitle. Something like How to Build a Freelance Business how to, how to Attract Your Dream Clients and Build a Freelance Business You Love.
[01:06:47] We've got a little quote on there from Chris do saying that every freelancer should read this book. So yeah, if people wanna check that out and download it, they can just go to create hyphen prosper.com.
[01:06:59] Gabe Ratliff: Mm. Thank you so much, Matt. I mean, what a wonderful surprise gift there for everybody. Everybody go out if this connected to you and check that out. Download it for free. Thanks to Matt and thank you again, Matt, for being on the show. So many wonderful pieces of of wisdom that you shared throughout. And again, just another lovely conversation with you. I hope you hope you enjoyed it. And thanks again, brother.
[01:07:28] Matt Essam: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. It's been an absolute pleasure.
[01:07:31] Voice Actor: Ann Coatney: Well, that's it for this episode. Whether this is your first time listening or you're already a fan, thanks for being here. We hope you enjoyed the show. All links and show notes for this episode can be found@theartful.com. If you haven't yet, please subscribe to the show and leave a rating or review wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks again for listening. Until next time, keep being artful.
