045: Anneli Hansson - How to be a polite explosion
Brand strategist shares how she helps artists transform from being order-takers to problem solvers
Anneli Hansson is a brand strategist, business designer, teacher, and coach. With 20+ years of experience building brands, she has worked with numerous agencies, enterprises, organizations, and freelancers. She is an agency owner but also has experience from the client's perspective being a Corporate Brand Officer and Corporate Marketing Officer for a multibillion-dollar company in Sweden. She describes herself as the "bridge between the creatives and the business people". She is dedicated to helping creatives shine and get paid to think and solve business problems. Anneli digs for gold in people and she has a special place in her heart for the underdogs.
LINKS
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TRANSCRIPT
Anneli Hansson: [00:00:00] make your weird light shine bright So the other weirdos know where to find you And I was like yeah that's me
Gabe Ratliff: [00:00:10] That's what we like to call flying your freak flag
Anneli Hansson: [00:00:15] wonderful It's like when you know that you are in that tribe like that group you know exactly why it's so good you don't have to hide it It's like just show it the way it is and people will be attracted to you who gets it
Gabe Ratliff: [00:00:30] Welcome to artful the community committed to championing artists and creative misfits from all walks of life. This show gives you an insider's look into the real scrappy lives of artists. Creating with purpose, including interviews with beatboxers, graffiti writers, DJs chefs, photographers designers. Illustrators filmmakers and music artists from around the globe, as well as insights and inspiration from yours, truly I'm Gabe Ratliff an award-winning artist, coach, entrepreneur, and fellow misfit. All right, let's do this.
Anneli, thank you so much for being on the show. I am so excited to have you here.
Anneli Hansson: [00:01:25] Hi, Gabe. I'm so excited to be here. Thank you.
Gabe Ratliff: [00:01:29] Part of my growth this year was around. Recognizing that I really want it to be a conversation between creative spirits
Anneli Hansson: [00:01:37] it's good to talk to people who are like the same, because it's okay. When you do it, because I often feel like, Oh my God, people are so smart. So they like, have everything figured out before they talk. And especially people, we were all like, I don't need to say so much because.
I don't need so many words and I always feel awful when people say that because I need a lot of words to think
Gabe Ratliff: [00:02:01] guilty as charged.
it's the same thing with the inner monologue. People were like, Oh, you have an inner monologue. I don't. And I found out it's the same with my wife. She's a think to talk. And I'm a talk to think she doesn't have an inner monologue and I do.
Anneli Hansson: [00:02:19] Oh, interesting.
Gabe Ratliff: [00:02:21] Yeah. No. So many of our things are different. I'm more a passive leader and she's a type a,
Anneli Hansson: [00:02:29] That's so interesting because I actually think that I am more like her I am an a but I didn't want to be that So I pretend to be like you know what I mean Like I my natural instinct is to lead and I walk alone if I need to as long as I go after my goal I can walk alone But I also want to be liked So I think I adjust a lot to people So I waited for people and invited them to collaborate with me Because I wanted them to like me not so much because I needed them more because I want and to be liked And I just realized that and I'm like such a ups and downs because not everything about yourself and your mind and thoughts are pretty it's like Oh my God I don't like that side of me but it's good when you figure things out because it makes a lot of sense Like now I know why I did it and I can't do that I can't pretend to need a lot of people around me in order to be liked because they're actually holding me back a lot So when I know where I'm having I just need to go there And if I have people beside me it's great But I I will still go there that's it's my new thing do you know what I mean It's literally a bit scary but I just feel like I need to do it And a friend of mine Mario He was so sweet when we talked he was like Anneli you need to release your inner lioness And I know exactly what he means because that is the thing I am a lion and I'm like a born leader but I didn't allow myself to do that because I thought people wouldn't like So I hold myself back for like 46 years So I did a lot of thinking and self-reflecting and work I just feel like I'm in a new place right now and I know exactly what I want to do with my life And it's nice to know that
Gabe Ratliff: [00:04:46] When I was working on sets and doing video production a lot
Anneli Hansson: [00:04:50] Yeah
Gabe Ratliff: [00:04:50] I love that collaborative spirit And we were working on content with other creators And recording the this online education for a company called Craftsy I got to work with my peers and we were creating all this really great content with other artists and creators And then that the audience was people who wanted to create And I was like are you kidding Can I get much better than that I really enjoy that collaborative spirit
Anneli Hansson: [00:05:19] Yeah
Gabe Ratliff: [00:05:19] But I was part of that cog and I wasn't leading it since I left that and have been leaning more into being a leader and a mentor and Sharing my experiences and doing the podcast and all of these things I started recognizing that same thing And it's been a very similar journey for me of like Oh you actually are a really good leader And people like working with you and you do have a lot to bring to the table So I definitely get that 100%
Anneli Hansson: [00:05:48] I really practice to learn how to be a little bit more objective because I realized how much assumptions I have and how much I mirror in people
Gabe Ratliff: [00:06:05] Are you an empath?
Anneli Hansson: [00:06:06] Yeah
Gabe Ratliff: [00:06:07] Yeah me too
Anneli Hansson: [00:06:09] I realized that I have such a problem sometimes with people so I can't even hear what they're saying it's something about them I thought I liked all people so it's not that I don't like them It's more like they distract me so much And I don't know if they have so much feelings or if it's something else so I had to go back and really practice that And so what I did was I took a course at IDEO How to do observations that isn't things like for insights for innovation So try different methods okay Observation studies and interviews I did different things To practice my objectivity and I every time I need to be objective I'm pretend that I'm going into this research mood So I'm just loving like having this glasses I put on and I'm like I'm going to be objective and I'm not going to have any feelings at all what I've been doing is that I actually look at things that really triggers my emotions And I managed to see people in a total different way by just practicing that So somebody that I even couldn't listen to because I was so distracted I can listen to now What this person is saying and feel more warm feelings toward that person
I don't need to mention names but it's like somebody in my family I was really affected of comments and stuff From him but now I'm like I can hear what you're saying And I feel a little bit sorry for you that you feel that way maybe you have a bad day I don't say it out loud but I say it in my own head And I feel so much stronger because it's like it's not about me that voice you talked about in your own head I had that all my life but I thought that was my mean voice I was almost worried that I had two different personalities because one part of me was like Smiggle and the other was like golem Smeagol is that nice kind warm the personality I actually have And then Gollum comes up sometimes in my head and like trash talk really mean to me like you're such an idiot How can you do that and I realized that's not my voice That's somebody else's voice has been in my life my whole life And and it's not my voice And when I realized that I cried for three days then I like realized that I can actually stop listening to this voice Now when I know it's not mine And that will open up I think so many possibilities for me because I'm not that mean to myself I just let somebody else have that voice for too long for 46 years And I just feel like I put in a box and I leave it there and I'm like okay I can hear you again I know you're here but I'm not going to listen this time And I feel like I don't know what's happening with me I'm like I feel so much stronger I have never found this like empowered and strong in my whole life So I just feel that I have all the possibilities in the world right now It doesn't matter My ADHD and being weird sometimes and have a crazy idea So I just feel like that's part of me and That's who I like and that's also why I can do what things I do that's my weird personality when you invited me I got from a friend he had a post on Instagram and Oh my God I saw your post That was like to me And he got it from his wife And I just I had to bring it up here because This is like to you for your audience make your weird light shine bright So the other weirdos know where to find you And I was like yeah that's me
Gabe Ratliff: [00:10:16] That's what we like to call flying your freak flag
Anneli Hansson: [00:10:21] wonderful It's like when you know that you are in that tribe like that group you know exactly why it's so good you don't have to hide it It's like just show it the way it is and people will be attracted to you who gets it
Gabe Ratliff: [00:10:36] That's fantastic That was how I felt in the camp When we met through Diane and having these really meaningful conversations which is already super important to me I am not into superficial conversations I never really have been And Sometimes it's hard when we're in our normal situations right Cause it's you're just seeing friends and you're going out and you're trying new restaurants and you're doing this and that But when you really have this time with yourself and you're doing this other work like the IDEO course your lioness is coming out and your inner critic is getting recognized or however you want to call it I wanted to ask you did you name it
Anneli Hansson: [00:11:26] no I haven't I know that people are doing that because I thought it was my voice for so long No because I know whose voice it is So I just I don't know if I need to name it
Gabe Ratliff: [00:11:41] it's been helpful for me
too Cause I named mine Jimmy And when I hear it I can say I'm good Jimmy I'm good Cause it was the same It's the same conversation you were just saying of I hear you I'm good I even have a reminder in my phone I have a reminder to say I am enough every day And then I have another reminder remember your inner critic Jimmy just let him know you're okay And you got this
Anneli Hansson: [00:12:06] Oh that's beautiful I love that I also have I have been thinking a lot about my fears and I think that's connected to that And I realized how I'm so much more afraid of hurting other people than hurting myself And that's not so nice when you say it out loud and you hear it's what's wrong with me how can I prioritize that Like how can I do that to myself But it's something about when you find your tribe and for me in September last year I joined the pro group the future pro group and I thought I joined for I wanted to develop my business That's what I told myself
Gabe Ratliff: [00:12:57] Yeah
Anneli Hansson: [00:12:58] I always felt a little bit like it's something really strange here Like how could I find them But I didn't dig so deep in that I want to develop my business and I was really competitive and everything was about money and how much I wanted to earn this year And I just starting to think a lot about Oh my God I'm turning 46 this year How many years I'm going to work I've been doing this over 20 years what am I shaking do I really want to do this anymore as I started to question so many things and then I realized that Oh my God I have so much Work to do on myself and my personal development Like I'm just not willing to do it because it's too painful So I rather talk about money and is that so every time like I helped clients with their like purpose and mission stuff and I thought I was good at it And I'm also certified coach So I helped people But as soon as somebody started to ask me about things like that I was like Oh my mission is I work with sustainability and I thought that was my mission and my purpose I didn't want to do the work because like it was hurtful And then I just realized that they want to do something different Like I want to be that coach and I want to teach people and I want to empower people and I want to help like me even Yeah I'm not a graphic designer I am like my soul is a creative and I want to help people to communicate with business people So they actually really can understand each other because I know that language So if I can use like my both strengths like my business brain And my creative heart And so that's a really good combination I think that's honestly why I am in the field of future pro group And that's probably also why I was drawn to Chris in a way because he Has been like my savior in a way because he was the person that I could get support from who else attached to my emotions And I have so much emotions so I needed a person like him who can help me see things a little clearer And he opened up opportunities for me that I'm super grateful for And then I met Diane and I could talk in her summer camp And I was like am I going to talk about sales that have been many years I work with that But then I realized that I have been doing this my whole life because I do this all the time So it felt like everything started to get connected Like my background was sales when I started out and my business side my creative all the things with mindset everything started to melt together and I'm like this is what I want to do So it's just a little bit sad that it took four to six years but maybe I was not ready maybe it just takes more time for some people to find themselves
Gabe Ratliff: [00:16:24] I connect with that 100% the journey that you've been on all of this learning that you've done allowed you to create this space to be what you call a business designer And to have this business side and merge the creative and that's what has come up for me about this year It's been such a challenging year for so many reasons and for so many people but it's also been this awakening Globally for so many of us who are open to it and are saying like I'm going to I'm going to lean into this and I'm going to see where this takes me all of the things that you've been doing I mean 20 years of work has been you D you developing these muscles so that you can then share that back and be like I've done all of this I have done it And I know how this works and I can help you be able to speak to businesses because I know how they think and work And I was that person
Anneli Hansson: [00:17:29] Yeah
Gabe Ratliff: [00:17:30] but I now want to help you I mean that's powerful It seems like the timing is perfect It's just how we think of time should I have been doing this in the twenties No Cause you had so many other things that were on your mind and your priorities
Anneli Hansson: [00:17:43] and I didn't have the experience And now I feel like maybe even if I have 20 years of experience I have experienced from different things because I've been employed at Advertising agency PR agency different agencies but also have been my own agency owner but I also have been a more like the corporate brand officer Like I worked at a really big company building a brand and everything around that from brand strategy to marketing and stuff It's been really good to have different perspectives because I know how it is to be the creative who wants to talk to the business people But I also know how it is to be that person who have that big budget and are responsible for a brand And I think here I think in the U S they say like chief brand officer like different titles but the person who actually have the money around a brand and I know how it is to work with seven agencies at the same time because they're doing different things And I seen so many agencies coming in and doing Pitch for me and presentations and stuff And I seen a lot of not good things more things that I feel like they could do so much better if they just know how it is to be in a position where you have all the budget because you need to minimize your risk Like you can't work with people that you can trust Every everybody talks about awareness and that's super important But when you have that awareness when you have that door opened everything is about creating trust and building relationships And if people don't like you and don't trust you it doesn't matter if you have 40 years of experience and all the awards in the People don't want to work with you if they don't like you and if they don't trust you And I just felt like maybe I have something there I don't know how to I deconstruct that so I can teach it to somebody else But I know I have a way of doing it because I have easy to connect to people So just feel like there's so many super talented creatives out there but they don't know how to talk to business people if I can help them do that then we can change the world because the world needs creative people and creative minds and people who think with their heart and soul not just their brain and about money because we have a different way of solving problems but the business people doesn't understand it because they don't know so many creative people They think we are like doing folders and an ad or a website They don't know how to use us the best way And it does to be like I want to be that person who can be that champion for all well creatives to solve more business problems instead of just doing pretty Graphic design stuff
Gabe Ratliff: [00:21:00] I gleaned from your presentation at the camp the energy you bring into the room And that all leads into this context of creating a deeper relationship right Like where the it's not about I need to get this gig and I need to make money That's all true The business needs to make money They are trying to elevate their brand or roll out some new product or whatever it is everybody has their goal But when you get past that and you get to the core of like how to show up the way you show up and speak your truth and share that without letting all that other crap get in the way That's what I heard that you're focused on helping with is the Giving guidance to creatives to tap into that confidence in that energy and they're their worth
Anneli Hansson: [00:21:54] Yeah I think self confidence is like so extremely important when it comes to working with clients because if you don't trust yourself how can the client trust you It's you need to be sure of that And for me that's super important but it's also important to be truth Truthful to yourself that you can be really super brave and super vulnerable at the same time It's actually possible to be that I told somebody the other day like it's something probably wrong with me because I can't have a strategy session with A person without they're starting to cry and I cry like that always happened And especially when we talk about things like this purpose or fears and stuff because I'm really open And when people open up I feel their emotions And when they cry I cry And I tried to hide that for so many years because I wanted to be professional Now it's It's nothing about professionals I'm an empath I feel things I welcome it instead because I also have the ability allow people to open up and to be honest And so I feel like I want I just want to have that balance between being really vulnerable but also being really brave somebody described me and I loved that I was really proud of that description They were like you are like a polite explosion and you are like brutally honest but you also you always do it with a smile And I just loved that it's a balance between That's strong lioness And at the same time that's super sensitive person that allows to have those emotions And that is what I am aiming for to be even more like that I compared myself to like men who is famous and Do public speaking And because I just see men I never see any women doing that And I'm dreaming of being on those big stages I want to be at Adobe max and stuff and inspire creatives and I just see men do it So I was like maybe I need to be like them to do it Then I started to find my own Role models instead So my role model is more Michelle Obama and Oprah Winfrey and Brené Brown women like that because they're super brave And they're also vulnerable I want to be more like them I don't want to be like all the men on the stage
Gabe Ratliff: [00:24:47] Realizing that vulnerability and your journey is what is really connecting to people because it's they're amazing role models but you have so much strength and power and experience and relevance for people That they can get from your journey and your story like what you're sharing right now and what you will be sharing on stage with people right what you will be speaking to all of this journey That's what I love about Brené Brown when I watched her show called the courage on Netflix It's just riddled with stories and her journey and being hyper vulnerable about like her and her husband and her and her daughter And
Anneli Hansson: [00:25:36] yeah
Gabe Ratliff: [00:25:37] It all has this relevance to the outcome and what she got out of it and how she's transferring that journey on with the benefits and the results that came out of that And what she's learned that's the thing I think is so powerful about them is they have the they have walked the walk like you have and it's just continuing to do it right And to work on it and to share that message and to hone how you show up
Anneli Hansson: [00:26:09] Yeah And also too I think people need to hear that whole story about yourself instead of thinking like you have everything figured out and you've been doing this for so many years I just realized that a lot of people were like not intimidated but they were like because I'm too And before that they were a little bit like okay too much I want to learn from somebody who just do been doing it for a couple of years It seems like you're a little bit out of my league You know what I mean But then I realized when I tell people like the truth that I actually And I had worked with international clients in Sweden like Coca Cola Levi's different big brands but I've been working in Sweden I never worked in another country So when I tell people that when I joined the pro group in September it took two or three months before I even spoke to a person in every call I tried to hide And I was like don't look at me don't look at me Don't speak to me Oh my God Oh my God I need to mute myself Yeah I was so afraid So the first time I spoke up I had to write everything down I have to translate it in Google translate I was terrified and I thought nobody understood me And took some time but then I just forced myself to do it because I had this dream and I can't speak Swedish because nobody understands me I need to just speak a language people can understand me So I just forced them myself to do it And every week it was a little easier but it was still a struggle and then just a few months ago I started dream in English I started to talk to my husband sometimes in English I talk to my dog in English he doesn't know what language to listen to Today I actually sent two messages to my clients in English and they were like we're in Sweden what's wrong with you And so I need to move I'm turning American I don't know what's happening It's funny when I tell people that story they're like Oh my God is it true So I've been a little bit of a champion for The quiet ones and want to find their voice they don't know how to do it So when we're in calls I did that today I was in a call today and I write in the chat I'm here If you don't want to ask a question out loud you can just send it to me and I can ask it if you want to or I can just make space for you if you want to ask it yourself And a lot of people they just send me things and they want to connect with me and they want to have a call with me and they open up and they're like I don't know how to be around people I don't know how to speak up but I don't have an invoice And I just felt Oh my God this is I can help people do this because I struggled with it myself So when they hear what I went through I'm like you speak English you have my biggest struggle was the language people understand you We were just solving the other thing that you don't want to speak up in front of people but we can we can solve that it's not just about the creativity It's like I have two different kind of favorite people to work with one is the really quiet site and people who would need My support to help them find that voice And the other group is really self-confident like the opposite a little bit but they're also like weirdo creative people but they have a really good self-confidence They could be business leader maybe have a lot of employees maybe run an own agency They need somebody to talk to who can help them with their business And like a framework for brand strategy or whatever that business side we often start there after one call I got to hear Oh my God I tell you things that I never told them my mother or my brother you no they're opening up And then they realized that maybe they needed me more for that than for the brand strategy framework I'm not a therapist I'm just there To listen and to support them So if I can do both if I can be that like brave business woman who can support them in this is what you can charge and this is how you handle your clients I can do that but I can also be that more caring vulnerable No you can talk to me and people open it up I want to be both And I really enjoyed that I always didn't want to do that because it felt unprofessional Like I wanted to be that business woman but I realized that this is like a new level This takes me to a new level when I actually can be myself
Gabe Ratliff: [00:31:22] What is that process like that you take people through so that the audience can get a sense for what that would look like
Anneli Hansson: [00:31:31] I asked questions And after 20 minutes I have a such a kind of a good insight what the problem is So then I can start helping them solve it So often I offer like at least three calls at a time because I feel like I want to go a little bit deeper and we often like where are you right now Now Where do you want to go what kind of obstacles struggles do you have to get there What do you need to get to your goal can we vision that visualize your goal your dream where are you going And it's easy for me to help them step by step how to reach that And that looks different to different people that could be like I need more support Maybe I want to create framework for selling to do maybe brand strategy I need help with that or it could be like I'm not I'm really good at what I'm doing but I'm not good enough In a room with people like I don't know how to facilitate a meeting I don't have that self confidence so my clients doesn't trust They're just they treat me as an order taker because they don't trust me and I don't know how to facilitate There are so many people struggle with this From creative point of view like they're so good at what they're doing And they're really good at their skills and design and everything But when it comes to actually what I talked about in Diane summer camp to take ownership of that room to read the energy in the room and to know how to read different people like different personalities you need to treat them different And how to mirror people fast and adjust to them That's things that I do And I thought everybody did it I didn't know that I was good at it I thought I was like everybody else And then I realized that's a thing that I'm good at So then I felt like maybe I can teach other how to do it And then they can start charge more and become more like trusted advisors for their clients instead of being order takers I like I don't want creatives to be order takers I want them to be trusted advisors and consultants and designers but at least thinkers like not pixel pushers if somebody had wants to become a strategist and they're not today like they're actually more of a Maybe a designer graphic designer and they want to transform into a brand strategist That leap is big Take so what I do is to go besides I I can be their mentor They're their guide to make that transformation I don't need to be in front of the client but I help them every time they are going to be in front of the clients I can prep them I can help them know how to become better at doing it But I don't want to be the star Like it's my client who is going to be the star in that room I'm not even going to be in the room but I'm going to be there beside and I'm going to have the coaching calls and I'm going to prepare them and train them to become really good strategists And I think it's so much easier to learn while you're doing it it's good to have a course It's good to write a book But I want people to actually take action and have me beside them because I think that will be the fastest transformation And it took me so many years to learn And I can save them some years If I can teach them while they're doing it So That is actually a little bit connected to the thing we talked about in the beginning with me being so afraid of not being liked So I started listening to everybody else That's connected to that because I hired somebody to actually interview 12 I think was 12 or 14 people who I worked with to really figure out like my personal brand my professional brand and my professional reputation And and then he came back and he did a summary and everything and I was like okay And he told me you know yourself a lot Like when I interview you and then I interview people it's kinda the same answer And he was really impressed that's not so common especially not when it comes to women yeah I know I have good self confidence when it comes to my work but then he was like okay And that's my recommendation for you And I was like yeah I want to hear that What do you think what's my future And he was like I think you already know that And I was like no don't that's why I hired you And he was like You're not supposed to have an agency this is your time to shine I want to see you on stage I want to see you write a book you have such a potential like and I don't say that to so many people but in your case it's really your time to shine But at the same time it's is this really true can I do that Okay So I listened to him and I did the opposite this is so me I am like a grown up people Longstocking If you know who she is Yeah And I was like okay I hear you And I would love to listen I was afraid of course terrified to see myself that way this was five years ago so I decided to start this agency where I just wanted to work with the best people I could find and have dream teams like a fluid agency And I forgot about that I didn't listen to him at all I just did the opposite So I created this agency and When people joined they joined for me they wanted me to lead I had this great mission I was like so passionate when I talk about how we could take over be the best agency in Sweden And I really believe that we could do that And then instead of just being that leader and just go for it I started to question myself a little bit Maybe they don't like like maybe we need to collaborate I like collaboration Like maybe they need to own this agency with me all of those Ideas I had so I started to treat people instead of me being the leader I was like what do you think What do you think What do you think and what happened was that everybody who joined wanted to do everything all over again So I decided I wanted to do the brand identity again because she didn't like it And then I had a digital person consultant She was like we need to do a redesign for the website And I was there in the middle okay As long as you like me you can do whatever you want This is your expertise I'm just a strategist when I think about it I actually getting a little bit sad because it was like so obvious what I needed to do And I needed to go on this path on my own somebody told me Yesterday that my cage has been open for so long it's just time to leave it and get out there And I've been in that cage even if it was open I've been there because it felt safer And so I had this project it's my time to shine and I didn't do it And now I'm here five years later And now I feel the same way that this is my time to shine and this time I would actually do it if I need to walk alone towards my goal I will do it Like I think I will have people decide maybe Cause I I have such a wonderful friends right now who supports me I will do it alone if it takes because I can't let myself down another time And I also want to help other people shine because I can see that gold in people and I can see their potential and they're like super powers And I want to help them find that because everybody has something special I saw myself when I did this work a couple of months ago I saw myself actually from a third person perspective when I saw that picture from X man movie And I just feel like her one of the girls in that movie who everything she touches is like starting to burn I don't know I don't remember her name Yeah I was like something's wrong with me I have like powers I can't control And now I feel like I'm starting to be more balanced and I can control my powers but I can also spot people who are my tribe there are that often sensitive empath creatives We've super Powers that they don't always see themselves if I can help them see them and how to use them the best way that's just the best reward for me so now I'm not just allowing myself to shine I want to help others to shine I wasn't just ready now I'm ready I can be on many stages and write a few books as well
Gabe Ratliff: [00:41:24] I love that that's such a great story because I've heard that several times where it's like you have this guide in your life that paints that picture or gives you that glimpse into what they see for you but we're not ready for and we're like now that's not me then here we are five years later and you're ready
Anneli Hansson: [00:41:46] I am ready for me it took that I needed to leave my own country to be able to find my own tribe and my own people what I'm real excited to do is to try to create something where I live in my country in Sweden because there are so many great creatives there but we have culture where it's not allowed to shine Like you're not supposed to think that you are something extra if somebody thinks that you need to push them down really fast and hard No you're not allowed to do that I want to change that because I don't think it's healthy I think a lot of creators needs their community And a lot of people they're like sitting at home working and they need some kind of community to support each other And we don't have I really would love to do that So that's another thing I have a lot of dreams too It's just not enough time
Gabe Ratliff: [00:42:57] Sounds to me like it's the perfect time and that you are that person that Sweden needs that you recognize this and you have the power and people already come to you They did it When you were leading an agency
Anneli Hansson: [00:43:11] Yeah
Gabe Ratliff: [00:43:11] you draw that out in people you're empathetic But you're also driven and have a vision and you have all of this wonderful understanding for the two worlds that you've been able to bring together And you've recognized this need that creatives of Sweden have I totally get that I understand that because where I grew up I was an outsider and I even being in the States I was still in a region that didn't like creative weirdos
Anneli Hansson: [00:43:46] Oh
Gabe Ratliff: [00:43:47] And so I grew up feeling like an outsider and we've marked a lot And so I that's part of what I speak to about artful and like why I do this because I also don't want people to feel alone and to feel like they don't have a tribe or a community That's how we connected because we both are kindred spirits
Anneli Hansson: [00:44:13] yeah
Gabe Ratliff: [00:44:14] I wanted to ask you speaking of which about the vegetarian lioness
comment you you wrote about in the questionnaire and the recovering Hunter to farmer
Anneli Hansson: [00:44:24] I don't know if he was the one who came up with it but it was actually Christo who told us that it's two different ways of of marketing or positioning yourself or B just being maybe as a creative like the farmer is more that you know you can compare it to inbound marketing it takes time but you need to grow it And you create those you create value for people may be by Instagram post or Twitter or wherever you do but you create something for people and it works we'll grow but it will take you time and people will find you So then they will connect to you And the other the Hunter is more the outbound the sales person who's going after their clients more aggressive sales style with more it retargeting and cold calling and stuff like that And we had a discussion about like in the group Who's who because a lot of creatives it's actually more the farmer I'm like eh what did I say to you Recovering Hunter or yeah Yeah I was a vegetarian lion Yeah There is actually funny I Googled it and it is a true story that there were a vegetarian lion and I was like Oh my God how could I made that up It's actually a true story That's me I think that's awesome So yeah Vegetarian lion like I am a Hunter like I'm a born Hunter I'm really good at sales And I like it actually I don't cold calling and stuff like that because that's not my style but I can call somebody I don't know And I probably will have success anyway because I just like to connect to people but I don't believe in advertising anymore being that brand that people like feel really resistant to like why is she following me if I want to be somebody's friend and I want to create value for that person will I actually follow that person everywhere and just be really annoying No I don't like that style I don't like people who act like that Why should I like brands that acts like that So for me working with advertising for so many years and marketing I just felt like when I Went into design thinking and how you can actually change people's behavior with design methods how you can develop products and services instead like everything you can do to create a great brand but you don't have to do advertising I love everything about that And that also includes like we do now like podcasts or everything you do to create value for people that could be share things in Instagram carousels it could be writing a blog writing an article whatever you feel like doing but it's still creating value for people And that's the farmer This lion will always be good at selling and I would have that drive and I know that I have this like energy but I'm more I'm turning into this vegetarian Who's a little bit more friendly and patient So that's the story behind that
Gabe Ratliff: [00:48:13] I totally connect with that Cause I it's funny Now when I see advertisements I get this physical Twitch
It hits me in this way of what you just were speaking to of I'm just like loath commercials and things like that now because it's just how can I continue to bombard you with whatever they're trying to spin these days to get your attention over and over and over in between something that you're watching or if something that you're seeing on a website
Anneli Hansson: [00:48:47] Yeah
Gabe Ratliff: [00:48:48] And it's just I appreciate the creativity that goes into it I appreciate the innovation of how to get your attention what bothers me is that it comes from this place of we're just continuing to try to get into your psychosis and
Anneli Hansson: [00:49:05] Yeah
Gabe Ratliff: [00:49:05] our claws into you right Like the lion Just to continue to get money from you and to buy things And
Anneli Hansson: [00:49:12] Yeah And it's not a hard like it's not it's nothing about people and relations I have been doing really good like advertising when I build brands that are more about telling a story and you can actually do that like in commercials and you can do it in ads and stuff If you do it the right way the more corporate brand storytelling That's another thing for me that's kind okay But the thing you actually like hunt people like really I don't want somebody to jump on me that I don't know in the street and start kissing me I didn't ask for that what are you doing Stop And that's how I feel about advertising especially digital because I didn't ask you to follow me And because I visit your website does that give you like permission to follow me for weeks I don't appreciate that And I think the problem is you can have data about everything today So everything is about AB testing everything is so technical and they forgot about okay maybe it's a good Call to action they're getting a good return on investment maybe I don't know But what if in the long run maybe this is just a short term goal and people maybe buy one time but what about the brand in the long run if people don't like you anymore if they stop listening to you if they stop trust you then everything you build up with that brand is kind of lost it's just robots Like people don't think anymore And that's what I think designers are so important because if we can create something which could be like a new product a new service and not judging as a new ways of doing things create amazing experiences for brands If we can do that We don't need advertising but the problem is that the designers are never hired to do They're hired to do different things that are not that important for the business So I think that where sometimes product owners and sometimes more industrial designers can be That's where more graphic designers like needs to be because we can actually solve problems by the way we think And I think that could be so much better for a lot of brands If we're allowed to do that instead of just hunt on people Nobody likes So I think advertising is dead And I don't know if this going to be an advertising 2.0 but in my or at least and I don't want to do it anymore I want to be that far or the vegetarian lion I'm a recovering Hunter
Gabe Ratliff: [00:52:30] I love that I love it That's such a great analogy And then I love that you looked it up in the and found that there really is vegetarian lioness and yeah that's so great
Anneli Hansson: [00:52:41] the so weird that it's true I couldn't even believe it when I saw it How can I lie
Gabe Ratliff: [00:52:50] Yeah I've actually heard of that before Cause I had the same response Yeah Cause I was like what And when I read that I was like that's so cool Cause it makes sense when you especially the story you were sharing about how creatives are like farmers that analogy just is powerful and relevant to especially I think today's the new generations of people coming up like younger creatives Like they can really connect with that kind of thinking about being a farmer and creatively like when you look at advertisement And not being that Hunter I love when you spoke to that in the your talk at the summer camp around being that Ceasar Milan way of turn your back don't be aggressive and don't hunt them that your client doesn't want to be hunted
Anneli Hansson: [00:53:40] Yeah People don't want to be haunted Nobody wants to be hunted I mean just think about dating It's the same thing We're so simple to read people are ridiculous simple to read it's it's not rocket science and you just need to show up and create some awareness So people know that you're there And do you need to make them a little bit more interested in you And when you done that you need to walk the other way slowly because people and the right people will follow You can't hunt people on your own when you're on a date People are often more attracted to people that they can't have It's something about that if you think about clients like that it's more like I'm here This is what I have to offer you can come to me when you're ready people will come but if you just after them being really annoying people don't want to work with you selling so interesting because if you just have a showdown that A presentation that modern kind of seller like more of an elephant with really big ears and the small mouth instead of the opposite with the like the crocodile with the really big mouth just talking and not listening with a small ears that's this kind of sales school I went to 25 years ago I learned how to convince people That's kind of manipulation I know still how to do it but I don't want to be that person I don't want to convince anybody who doesn't want to work with me Maybe they say yes maybe they regret the day after I don't want to be that So I had to relearn everything about sales forget everything And I just try to be a nice empathic person who listens to my client's and see if I can solve them And if I don't think I can solve them I will do my best to find somebody else who can solve them Maybe they maybe I'm a better fit next time for them or for their friend or for their colleagues So I don't see it as selling I help them to understand what kind of problem they have and guide them to a solution And then we'll see if I'm the best fit to do it Or if somebody else's it's not that difficult
Gabe Ratliff: [00:56:21] where do people find you online if they want to come work
Anneli Hansson: [00:56:24] Yeah I have a website it's AnneliHansson.com I'm also at Instagram @theannelihansson that's where you can find me And people are welcome to contact me.
Gabe Ratliff: [00:56:38] Fantastic. Anneli, thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you for sharing your story and your journey and. for the work that you're doing and for being that vegetarian lioness that you are,
Anneli Hansson: [00:56:51] Thank you so much, Gabe. I'm super honored that you wanted to have me here.
Gabe Ratliff: [00:56:55] Well, that's it for this episode, whether this is your first time listening or you're already a fan. Thanks for being here. I hope you enjoyed the show. Our links and show notes for this episode can be found at the artful.co/podcast. If you haven't yet. Please subscribe to the show and leave a rating and review on iTunes, Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts, if you like what you hear and want to be a guest or know someone that's a good fit. Go to the artful.co/guest. And if you want to leave me a note about an idea or topic for the show, go to the artful.co/speakpipe. Thanks again for listening until next time. Keep being artful.
