036: Shaun Don - Finding your voice and loving your story

Hip-Hop Artist Talks Fatherhood, Self-Worth, and Post-Traumatic Slave Syndrome

Shaun Don is a student of the Master Teacher and facilitator for peaceful resistance of power and violence. Born in Oakland, CA Shaun was guided to Denver, CO as a youth through his Mom’s journey of love and opportunity. A profound lyricist, poet, and community organizer, Shaun challenges the status quo with powerful lyrics that interrogate daily struggles and historical trauma. 

As an American Ethnic Studies student at Kansas State University, Shaun organized culturally responsive events that focused on education of the student body within artistic dialogue. Since graduating, he has returned to Denver advocating for youth and families who have experienced violence in their communities. In 2018, Shaun Don completed the Youth On Record Fellowship where he shared the stage with local icons such as The Flobots, Mo Speaks, Monalicious and a cohort of Denver’s rising talent!

LINKS

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Youth on Record

TRANSCRIPT

Shaun Don: 00:00:00 When I say patience, we need to be patient with all the different individuals who are going through some type of hell or who are wanting to emerge from their own hell because once we get past that stage, then we start to seek others who have either gone through that process or are on a very similar vibration or path, and when we start to collectively see the light, Namaste, if you will, then the possibilities become endless. Gabe Ratliff: 00:00:40 You're listening to The Artful Entrepreneur podcast, a show about living, an inspired life filled with vitality, creativity, and fulfillment. My name is Gabe Ratliff, and I'll be your host as I interview fellow creative entrepreneurs from around the globe to hear their stories and learn more about their work so that you can tap into your creative purpose and live a life that's drawn, not traced on the show. We talk about things like the creative process, personal development, community equity and contribution as well as the lessons learned along the way. All right, let's get to it. Gabe Ratliff: 00:01:23 Hey guys, so glad to be back in your ears and I have to tell you I am very, very excited to be recording this intro in the beautiful island of Koh Lanta in Thailand. Tiff and I are continuing our journey around the globe as digital nomads and we just left Paquette and are happy to be here on this much, much chiller Island. I'm a huge fan of beach life and the Island vibe. I also want to let you know there are a few spots in the recording of this episode where the connection wasn't quite as clean, so please bear with it. It's only a few spots and it's a great episode and is worth it as are you, which leads me today's guest and this episode I talk with Shaun Don thA TRUTH, a profound lyricist, poet and community organizer as well as new father. During our conversation we talk about being worth it and how much self love and self worth play a part in our evolution as humans. Gabe Ratliff: 00:02:16 Shaun talks about fatherhood and how he's been looking back at his ancestors methodologies to elevate the possibilities for his daughter's life and upbringing. We also talk about post traumatic slave syndrome and how he feels we can begin to do the hard work necessary to move forward through some of our most difficult conversations. Shaun Don is a student of the master teacher and facilitator for peaceful resistance of power and violence. Born in Oakland, California. Shaun was guided to Denver, Colorado as a youth through his mom's journey of love and opportunity, John challenges the status quo with powerful lyrics that interrogate daily struggles and historical trauma. As an American ethnic studies student at Kansas state university, Shaun organized culturally events that focused on education of the student body within artistic dialogue. Since graduating, he's returned to Denver advocating for youth and families who have experienced violence in their communities. Gabe Ratliff: 00:03:10 And 2018 Shaun Don completed the youth on record fellowship where he shared the stage with local icons such as The Flobots, Mo Speaks, Monalicious and a cohort of Denver's rising talent. Most of Shaun's inspiration comes from his mom, Katrina, grandma, Laura, Papa, Michael, and dad Richard, as they have overcome many obstacles while showing him the value of honesty and truth outside of music and community. Shaun spends time with his partner in peace Jameela daughter, Oya Irie and their dog LuvLuv. I'm so excited to share Shaun Don and his story with you and this wonderful conversation that we had also during our conversation. Shaun shares a couple of poems and one of which is called should I have a daughter that he wrote and he's actually shared that with me. It's going to be in the show notes, so definitely go check that out. It's really beautiful and I also want to let you know that he has a new song called worth it, which is very relevant to our conversation and that's going to be on his SoundCloud page, which he's shared that link as well and that'll also be in the show notes. Shaun. Oh my gosh bro. Thank you so much for being on the show. I'm so excited to have you here. Shaun Don: 00:04:27 I just want to share my, my, my experiences and learn about yours. Gabe Ratliff: 00:04:33 I wanted to start off with where's the best place to begin your story Shaun Don: 00:04:38 When it comes to like my process of thinking about lyricism, like my mom really instilled in me the, the value of being a a chivalrous young person and that's helped me become a, at times chivalrous man and at times a very demanding partner because I have expectations within not only my lyrics but also in anything that I do in life. Like I have the expense, the expectation of doing my absolute best. So with the lyrics and in middle school I really started to learn the value of like writing down my thoughts and my stepdad, who I call dad, he really taught me how do I combine like my real story as opposed to just saying whatever the trend is or whatever the, the hip thing is. He's just like Shaun stay true to my own story. And that's pretty much how I learned to fail quickly because when I used to write down lyrics and people who like my parents listened to like Snoop dog eat 40 tech nine like those types of guys, it was very easy. Shaun Don: 00:06:09 Like, I could write exactly what they're writing and have my own words to apply to it. But it wasn't necessarily my story. So when he gave me that challenge as a young person, it became extremely difficult because even though I could write my own words, I was using their style and I had no style of my own that I could say confidently when I actually spoke my lyrics to the world. So I was very shy and timid with like how, how and when do I even speak my own truth. It was very difficult because of the things that I saw growing up. And it's not like it was the roughest time in the world, but I've seen enough to know like love is a very complex drug, like a very complex drug. So yeah, my lyrics really reflect the complexities of love. And I also learned what it was like to, no matter what anybody tells you, like go and get what you want. Shaun Don: 00:07:25 Cause my mom told me I couldn't have like, you know, the little guns, like the little Nerf guns. She was just like, yeah, like you, you can't have that. And for her to tell me I can't have something. It just fueled my fire of like, well no, I'm going to fucking get it because there's no explanation really behind why I can't have it. Why can't I have the exact item that I want? And that led me to the sell and suckers at MLK early college for 25 cents a pop. Or I'd sell them five for a dollar. And that was my initial business practice because what I really wanted was attention at the end of the day. But defiance was how I started to make money in order to get attention and what I really wanted. So it just led to all these different experiences in life, which I try to speak about throughout my lyrics on my album. Shaun Don: 00:08:33 Did you ever get in trouble with the entrepreneurial attention that you were getting? You know, by being defiant, what some point. The answer entrepreneurial stuff led to too much attention seeking on top of an enabling. And I remember at one point I was stealing throughout high school. I was stealing from a Kmart. Like I tell people like, this is where I was stealing, you know, especially when I'm working with young people. Like this is where I used to steal. It's not the best practice, but I did do it. So at one point I still, this there was like a BB gun and then I stole like a 5,000 pack of beebees and I put it in my backpack and make sure the ghost was clear, if you will. And then started to leave the store walking toward the bus stop. I'm like, yeah, I got away with this again. And then a lady stopped me and she was like, yo I saw what you did. Why did you do that? Shaun Don: 00:09:43 I was shocked because like I had been so good at stealing. Like I had still candies, I still like another BB gun before that. So for this woman to come out of nowhere and like confront me, I was like, just, I didn't have words that were truthful. I was just like, well, you know, there's these kids bullying me at school, which was not the truth. I just said whatever I could to make it seem like it was a logical thing. And she was like, well, what school do you go to? I'm like, well, East high school. And then that led to why? Well, one of my nieces go there, so talk to my niece and she's gonna make sure whoever's pumpkin you isn't going to punk you anymore, but I do need you to give me that, that BB gun back. So I gave her the BB gun and I was like, damn, you know, she got me. But then I was also smirking on the inside because I was like, I still have 5,000 Bibi's and a whole nother BB guns. Shaun Don: 00:10:51 You know, you won a small part of the battle, but I'm still winning the war and my teenage mind. So yeah. Then at some point I saw karma because when I did get a job and started earning my actual money, somebody stole, well, first of all, somebody broke into my vehicle. They bashed the windshield of my Oldsmobile and tree. They bashed the windshield on the passenger side and, and then they took my stereo, which that was like a $400 stereo that I actually worked for. So it's like, that was probably within a year's time of each other between me stealing the BB gun and then also having something stolen from me that I actually worked for. So I started to realize through those experiences, yeah, I can be an entrepreneur, but I have to be very strategic with doing the right thing no matter who or what is involved. Like just do the right thing, stay accountable and kind of go from there. Gabe Ratliff: 00:12:00 That's really insightful man. You know, being able to recognize within yourself that that's what's going on. Right. And to like recognize, I mean some of the things you just said, it's really powerful to, to, cause you know, not everybody has that, right? I mean, especially depending on how we grow up, how you're treated in the household, how you're treated, you know, in your environment, but to, to, you know, start selling blow pops, but then to like, you know, be stealing BB guns and stuff. And then to start working legitimately, but then to recognize being hit by karma. Right. And then also being able to step back and have that insight around how you want to show up in lieu of that instead of, you know, instead of just continuing down the rabbit hole, like a lot of people do. Not only that, but then like taking that initiative to like continue to work towards a positive outcome, you know, and like, and not being turned to this like darkness that could come from doing that. Right? Shaun Don: 00:13:12 Yeah. It's depending on like what aspect of my life I've been in. It's just, it's been messy too. You know, this is, this is me talking as a 26 year old and I can say that there's some that have experienced a lot of different things with positive or negative. And the more that I just see and experience joy, the more I'm able to understand life is really about almost like zombie land, you know, rule number 37 I believe it is. But enjoy the little things because you just, you never know when like it's your time. And I've seen or not seen directly, but it's like I've had to endure like my grandma's spouse passing away and he wasn't my biological grandfather. But you know, for me to experience that in 2009 like I didn't even cry. Like I didn't know how to handle that type of stuff. And two years ago I found out that my uncle was killed by police. So that's, that's not even the prison industrial complex in its pure form. Like that's literally a person being killed and murdered and it's justified. So like I've, I've experienced certain things to make me really focus on enjoying small things because the world has its own perception of who I am, what I am. And I can't control that. But I can control how I respond to situations no matter what is going on. Gabe Ratliff: 00:15:06 And that man, I don't know about you, but that to me is like constantly a struggle. You know, it's such a challenge. You know, how to respond to things. Cause there's like the, we were talking about this before we started rolling. I mean the, the ego and another, another thing I know that we both share a passion for is the writings and the, the work by Bernay Brown and something that's been coming up a lot for me, similar to this same conversation is around shame and how we show up in the masculine versus how we, you know, how we show up in the more sensitive or how women show up as the feminine as well as when they show up more assertive. My wife is a type a, she's very assertive, but one of the things that comes up a lot in the corporate world, if you're an assertive woman or just in the world in general, if you're an assertive woman, is that you're a bitch and that you're, you're just being bitchy. You know? And I think part of the problem that I'm seeing is this came up with the times up in the me too movement. Shaun Don: 00:16:16 [Inaudible] What are your thoughts about all that? Well, I'm going to humor the situation and show you this hoodie that I have. So, Gabe Ratliff: 00:16:26 Oh wow. She is not your rehab. Right? Shaun Don: 00:16:31 The prevention director project pave showed me this YouTube video where this guy, I can't remember like what, what country he's in. I think it's New Zealand, but it's this Samoan Barbara basically. And he's addressing domestic violence and how we show up as people who do have a, an innate power. For one it's physical, but it's also social, you know, it's a social construct that we're, we're learning how to resists in different ways. And what's hard about being within the me too movement is we've seen multiple waves of feminist movements and right now we have so much technology that depending on what's really going on, like a situation can be put out there before, like facts are really available and people's assumptions can go left and right. And when those assumptions start to come to our door as men, you know, we have to kind of sit within that chain because depending on who we talk to, we're going to get scrutinized or we're going to be seen as a hero because maybe we did step up and I've broken up, for example, fights on Colfax. Shaun Don: 00:18:09 You know what I mean? And it's like these fights on Colfax were between two women. So I'm like, wow, you know, everybody was willing to watch like humans at the end of the day fight each other. But what does it look like to get messy and risk taking maybe a, a physical punch or to risk getting socially attacked, whether that's social media or whatever. What does it mean to risk that to do the right thing? And that's what I feel like we're facing as a, as a challenge today as men and women. Like what does it mean to just say if you're a, for example, a woman who may accuse a man of something that he just didn't do, what does it mean to take ownership of that false accusation? Because if you look at athletes, you know, depending on what athlete you are, you might get accused of something. Shaun Don: 00:19:11 And unfortunately a lot of those incidents are around black men. So it's like I've dealt with a similar allegation and that was a lot of shame that I had to deal with. And I just mentioned that in this context because I love standing up for women, but I am for damn sure gonna stand up for myself and right now we have to find a balance between what the truth is and potential shame that we felt during a situation that maybe this happened. Maybe somebody was triggered from something that happened a few years ago. But because you look like that person, you become the unintended target and the impact starts to grow beyond whatever the original intention was. You know, maybe the intention was just like, Hey, like I feel scared right now. Or that's the feeling at least. But by telling somebody that you're afraid of so-and-so because of whatever they did or what you thought they were doing, the impact was maybe somebody lost their job, maybe somebody never got hired again. You know, like there's a lot of repercussions that we have to be mindful of within the me too movement and as a man, as a black man within the [inaudible] movement, it's fun because I can, I can articulate, you know, the, the reality that I've experienced. And at the same time it can be very intimidating because depending on who you talk to, they can have a very negative perception about like the, the interactions that we've had. So a lot of mixed marbles there. Gabe Ratliff: 00:21:02 There are, you know, and I was going to say it's, it's a, it's a practice, right? It's like a practice that we have to continue to maintain. Whether it's working out, whether it's meditation and mindfulness, whether it's, you know, any kind of wellness, diet, all of those things. It's like the same thing. It's just another thing we have to keep practicing and having these kinds of conversations. Like that's part of what I'm so excited about having these kinds of conversations with so many different people because we can learn so much from each other about like how your experiences have been growing up versus mine versus you know, ill or you know, you name it. I mean Shaun King, you guys are also buddies, you know, and he was my first episode and we've all got these different experiences but knowing more about how we engage and how we deal with it. And like you said earlier, like how we respond to it is that's in our control. And that practice I think is what's so powerful about this conversation. Shaun Don: 00:22:08 I agree completely. Gabe Ratliff: 00:22:11 I want to ask some more about back around, you're the, you're like growing up and music and how that's affected your, your writing of songs and albums and your lyrics. What, what did you listen to when you were, when you were young? Shaun Don: 00:22:28 It was a mixture of like a lot of West coast rap, you know, like a lot of Tupac, a lot of [inaudible], a lot of like tech nine two and within like these Bay area type of guy is too short. You know, like there was, there was a lot of massage honey, you know, like a lot of massage, any, whether it's talked about or discussed. But the reality is there was a lot of self hatred and there was a lot of destructive habits that were honestly just being preached, you know, like, well this is the way shit is and you gotta handle it the way it comes. And you know, like Tupac, like I love pot. And at the same time I'm like, it doesn't make sense for any person to talk about like I fucked your wife. Like you just, you don't need to ever say anything of that nature. Shaun Don: 00:23:41 So that was a lot of the, the sound that I really came up with in terms of rap and hip hop. And then as I started to grow a little bit toward like middle school age, I started listening to James Brown hearing guys like James Brown. It was, it was an energy thing because it took me years to figure out like lyrically what are these people talking about? And within James Brown he had such energy that I was like, damn, you know, like what, what is he talking about? I'm black and I'm proud, you know, like huh. All I cared about was how he was saying it. And that was kind of it. Cause my folks didn't really talk to me a whole lot about the lyrics that were being sung. It was just by me occasionally hearing whatever they played. And then, all right, I'm going to start playing some Madden again and whatever I hear, I'm mad. Shaun Don: 00:24:48 And as a part of my musical repertoire, but between by my mom playing a whole bunch of classics and then going into adulthood, I started to go backwards and listen to the same people, but I would figure out who they were. So I started listening to stuff like Marvin Gaye very intently. I started listening to Bob Marley. Like one time I took a road trip from Kansas to Kentucky because I wanted to meet bell hooks and Cornell West and it's like I didn't really listen to anything for 11 hours outside of Bob Marley and NAS and within just listening to them over and over and over again. And I was like, wow, you guys, you're talking about historical themes and yet you're saying them so different, but they're very similar topic wise. So when I started to combine kind of like this laid back slash East coast historical type of lyricism with the West coast, which was very dynamics stylish and it just had a lot of energy. Shaun Don: 00:26:06 I eventually adopted my own sort of fusion of like, I like to talk about really deep stuff, but I'm very chill and sometimes I do get a little bit high fee, you know, like I also listened to keep to sneak and yuck mouth. Like those were some of my guys mainly in high school, like the whole HiFi movement like I was participating in. But the Colorado version, I just over time learned to accept different people's art and appreciate it for what it is. And then I was very intentional into adulthood with learning. Well, what was the story behind the that made the lyrics? You know, cause it sounded like Marvin Gaye, although he had beautiful lyrics, it sounded like he was a very trash person sometimes to some of the people in his inner circle. And it sounded like James Brown, although he had great lyrics, was kind of a trash ass person to some of the women that he dated. Shaun Don: 00:27:05 And anytime I hear an accusation about a rapper and another woman or something, I'm like, wow. So even though these guys could be talking about such eloquent things, our behaviors and mannerisms still are very patriarchal and they are very the opposite at times of what we we want or what we preach. So when I write my lyrics, I'll just try to think about who am I really and am I being authentic to what I've actually done in one example is this is I have a song and the Megan called every or my heart. So within my heart I mentioned we addicted to porn. And I say that knowing there's been multiple times in my life when porn was just like a thing with me. Like it became like my crack. And with the lack of activities, with the lack of a stimulation mentally that I had, I was like, damn, you know, like I became addicted to sexualization and objectification of women. Shaun Don: 00:28:19 Like I became a victim of that. So I was trying to be articulate and truthful by saying we addicted to porn, acknowledging I'm not the only person who's gone through that type of phase. I just happened to admit it cause I, I know what it is. You know, when I talked to my high school friends, like we could reference certain porn stars and be like, yo, you remember so-and-so and [inaudible] and it's just like, I want those conversations to become, why do we have those types of manipulative tools at our disposal so easily? Because I don't want my daughter to ever transition to that profession. What is the cost? You know, it seems like our humanity is involved with the, with the, with the whole I'm half naked or you know, I'm literally seeing like having sex with somebody and then that becomes our definition of love or a relationship. Yeah. That's kind of a mixture of flavors there. Gabe Ratliff: 00:29:30 That's a really, I mean that's a really powerful and poignant message though. And thank you for sharing that because I can understand that and I've had my own understanding of that kind of experience and I was, you know, as you were talking about that we had have you seen the hustlers? Shaun Don: 00:29:52 That's the one with a Jennifer Lopez, right? Right. So I haven't seen it, but I've heard debates about why is that even out. Gabe Ratliff: 00:30:00 So interestingly we just watched it just the other night and I was thinking about the same topic while we were watching it and I was thinking about, man, how fucking strong have women been, where they've taken, what few things they had and they turned it Gabe Ratliff: 00:30:20 To be a hustle or have they turned it to be their way of actually like making, you know, getting, getting theirs. Right. I went to Amsterdam several years ago and I was reading about it before we went and they were talking about the red light district and how the red lights were, what the women would carry, like these red lanterns down to go greet the sailors when they would come into the port on the Amstel river and they would walk them back up to where now the red light district is to, you know, to their brothel or whatever. But the red light makes them attractive, right? It's like a, it's a flattering color. And so they would, they would have their rooms red and they would have, you know, stuffed draped over lamps or whatever. And, and I was thinking the same thing about that. I was like, man, it's so crazy throughout history, people who have been marginalized or have like had so much less than others have figured out these amazing ways. Gabe Ratliff: 00:31:29 And I say amazing because it's not amazing that they had to do it. It's amazing that they were able to like take these adversities and turn them into these strengths, you know, and become even stronger. And I think that's the same for so many different cultures of people who've been marginalized where they've taken the thing that people, you know, other people like rich white men or, or whoever, men from from taking them from women will take it thinking they have control. Meanwhile ends up being the thing that makes them so much more powerful. And it's the same thing with the hip hop culture, right? It's part of what makes people have community and like share their stories and share these things about, I mean it's like you were talking about with Bob Marley, right? And like novice, they're both speaking about these historical things but in a different way. But they're, they're preaching, they're teaching, they're sharing stories. They're, they're like, listen to what happened so that you can do something about it and do something with it. Shaun Don: 00:32:39 I think that's what was important for me to understand like over the last three or four years, because I asked my mom like who my father was and within getting to know a little bit about him, I learned that his mom was a black Panther. And from that it just gave me a whole new sense of who I am. Cause it's like I learned that she'd passed on my grandma and my father's side passed away at 39 years old, but she was able to get her own house in Oakland, California. And I'm like damn, you know like a black woman getting her own house in the sixties and seventies you know, like that's that that lets you know like how she probably hustled because you don't really see that too often like even today. But she was able to do it and pioneer her own path. And I've grown up with my mom then I've seen heard, even though she was 14 when she had me, you know, she always had a roof over my head. Shaun Don: 00:33:47 And I'm like the way that I think women grow through nothing that that is reflective of how much love a woman. And at the end of the day it's like a human. But it, I think it's easy for us to take for granted how much love women really give and offer the world. And so when you look at some of the dynamics that the United States has right now, there's just a whole lot that really is going to change. You know, like there's been 45 presidents and none of them are women. So how do we talk about that? And at one point I didn't release these, this as a song, but I wrote in some lyrics, 45 dicks and we ain't done shit 45 dicks and we ain't done shit. Cause it's just like we've literally fucked the system in a way that people are afraid to have conversations. So how do we get past that reality and more importantly, how do we recognize and acknowledge that is our reality and move forward in a healthy and transparent and healing way? Gabe Ratliff: 00:35:17 Hear, hear that. That was actually one of my questions that I had for you for you was how do you feel we can move forward as a unified human race against racism, sexism, ageism, and all these other prejudices that are now making? I mean w we're, it's really divisive these days. I mean, even when movies come out, people freak out and start to choose sides, like game of Thrones or you know, all kinds of things. Like something will come out. Like you were talking about hustlers, like people were talking about like, why was that made? But I watched it and I know why it was made. You know, I, I, it's this conversation around, you know, like, like what I was mentioning a moment ago about the power that women have and the, the way that when people are marginalized in that way, where it gets down to a personal level of your, your self worth and like the, the lead character in it. Gabe Ratliff: 00:36:23 Who plays against J-Lo? She's, she keeps talking about throughout the film. She's like, I just don't want to depend on anyone. I just want to own my own thing. Like I just want to be independent, you know, and she wants to like own her own shit. And I just think, man, that's what we all want. We want to own our own shit and be who we are. But we get, I mean, you know, when you see people ganging up together on social media and in the media itself and in the press, I don't want to say the press because generally the press is supposed to not be fake news, but there are certain news channels that have definitely started to lean one way or the other and it makes it hard to want to be pure about what you're saying. Like yourself as a musician, right? It's like there's a truth to music and there's a truth to like what people want to say, but then it can completely get misrepresented or misunderstood and it can create this, this space of like, how the fuck do we move forward? So I'm so glad you brought that up. What are your thoughts about that? Shaun Don: 00:37:41 I appreciate you really wanting to, to go to the, to the future in sitting with me in the present because I have a song that I'm going to release next year called you're worth it. And within it, I talk about three different scenarios featuring young black girls. The first as a student that I had met through one of my workshops. The second is somebody who has been in prison two years and she is, she was in a very similar situation that's in Toya Brown except there was no, actually there wasn't a murder victim that she was associated with like directly. So she didn't kill anybody but somebody was murdered. And then there's my mom who was 14 old and the hook is when a child goes smile, got to figure out what still hurts. Don't suffer in silence because you don't know your worth. Maybe are worth it. Shaun Don: 00:38:50 You're worth it. I have Brittany Jane and Neptune featured on there and to seeing those hooks because they bring different dynamics and I mentioned that because when we decide as a, as individuals that we want to address a societal need, we have to enlighten ourselves with patients. Like that is the biggest foundation for any sort of change. Whether it's personal change, family change, societal change, whatever. We have to be patient and we have to find people who want to be a part of change. And the people who want to be a part of change are already seeking to change because they are going through the change. You know I mentioned Corbin, Toby Davis who I really hope that you guys can connect, but I think about somebody who anytime I needed a mentor or somebody to just listen to all that I was going through like he made himself available and he watched me change to get to this point where now I'm, I'm back to my collegiate self. Shaun Don: 00:40:20 Like I'm very confident, I'm very nurturing. I'm sarcastic again, like I have my positive features back, but I had to go through different types of hell to get there. When I say patients, we need to be patient with all the different individuals who are going through some type of hell or who are wanting to emerge from their own hell because once we get past that stage, then we start to seek others who have either gone through that process or are on a very similar vibration or path and when we start to collectively see the light, Nama stay, if you will, then the possibilities become endless. Right now I see there's a very specific energy where there's Lightworkers who, who want to just do the light work. And I also see some people are so stuck in the darkness, they don't even know what light looks like. Right? We're still in that place and I'm learning to, to accept all different avenues because who am I to judge anybody for what they have experienced in their personal hell and no, like I am nobody. I am no body, but I do encourage us all to find our own personal light and recognize it within other individuals who are seekers of that light. And once that happens, I think we can start to address some of these issues. Gabe Ratliff: 00:42:09 It's so interesting that you're using some of that language cause I, that's one of the things that I write every day is just that I'm grateful for the peaceful warriors and the light bringers out there. The Lightworkers like you said, who are just trying to make a difference, you know, just working to make the world a better place because I appreciate the work that's being done and I appreciate for me figuring out that's part of my purpose was the biggest shift in how I show up and like me getting up every day to do this work. You know, it's like once I realized like Gabe Ratliff: 00:42:52 That's my mission. I want to be someone who shares the light. I want to be someone who has these conversations so that somebody else can hear this and be like, that's interesting. I'm on that path. I want to learn more about this and make a difference, you know? And like the more of us that are out there trying to make this difference, the more exponentially there are out there. Shifting that place where people can maybe eventually see that there's light at the end of the tunnel, that there that there is a way out of darkness that they don't have to be so angry and violent. Gabe Ratliff: 00:43:31 Well that's it for this episode. If this is your first time listening. Thank you so much for being here. I really hope you enjoyed the show. The [inaudible] preneur podcast comes out by weekly and is available every other Thursday for your enjoyment and all links and show notes for this episode can be found@theartful.co if you haven't yet, please subscribe to the show and leave a rating or review on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you'd like to be a guest or know someone that would be a great fit, please go to the artful.co/guest and thanks again for listening. Until next time, Shaun Don: 00:44:23 Mind if I share a poem with you? Gabe Ratliff: 00:44:25 Please. Shaun Don: 00:44:26 Speaking on like violence, like this is something that I wrote before a boy was born and I say, how do I prepare my daughter for bullets? Do I arm her with a vest? Do I pack a nine with her PB andJ and Apple juice? Do I destroy news? Camera's forced to watch yellow tape and colonial sirens. Is there a book that can teach me how to train my infant? How to hide in school closets. Where's the latest article that discusses how school is a safe place? The shooters may have missed it. I mean, the kids with guns may have missed it. Damn. I mean, the kids without unconditional love and support are hurting and we missed it. We missed that check in and somebody checked out of their reality. She's already standing in the wound observing the chaos, anticipating how resilient she must be to embrace our healing harps the fears which plagued her mother and I assemble her confidence and fragments. Shaun Don: 00:45:33 As we learned to nurture the unseen potential we ponder how to validate her epigenetics, encouraging more than survival or fractured existence. I asked my scars to not reflect in her eyes hoping curiosity can overcome every red button that was pushed helped me raise my daughter. She's not less than a man. She ain't a bad bitch. Shana ho she ain't a piece of ass. She ain't worth no colonized cash. I just asked that the world shows my daughter the respect, love and strain to overcome her fears. It's a huge ass. I know. However, my protection alone is a fraction of what she needs to thrive. Gabe Ratliff: 00:46:23 Wow. Thank you. Shaun Don: 00:46:30 I just, I resonate with that message because that's what I was thinking about in may of this year. I was like, wow. You know, like it was, there was probably a shooting that warranted me writing and all that I just said a second ago. But yeah. You know, like what, what do we really do to address that type of violence? And to me it's all the same thing. Like we have to get back to your worth it. We have to recognize when a child will smile, we got to figure out like what still hurts, what is still making this person who may or may not become a shooter or may or may not become the victim of a shooter. We have to figure out what is causing them to feel so isolated in this, this world to where the gun is their best friend. Because if somebody were just hugging them and telling them that they are loved, appreciated for what they do, bring to the table, good or bad, a lot of these shootings would not happen. Gabe Ratliff: 00:47:38 Yeah, it's, I was curious. Thank you again for sharing that. Cause I was curious, you know, with, with you having a new baby girl, you know, like what, what does that feel like? It's taken so many generations to get to this point, right? Where we're having these open conversations and where I feel like we're finally starting to make a difference, but they're actually living it and we're actually seeing people like Gretta Thornburg who are stepping up and saying like, you fucking failed. I shouldn't have to be up here. And that's shit's powerful. You know? I mean, eh, that can get anybody's attention when you have a young woman stand up and say things like that and get people's attention the way that it has because it's right. It's true. Shaun Don: 00:48:33 I mean, I'm a Scorpio, so I appreciate death almost more than life sometimes. And what I mean by that is there's a culture and there is a mind state that is dying and those are all the isms. You know, all the race is, the sex is whatever the ism may be that month. That mentality is starting to fail and die. And all of the, the different aspects of those ideas and thoughts. The people even are dying with those ideas. And so there's a new generation that is fully aware and experienced enough to understand like we really do have a limited amount of time to heal our planet. And if we want to be real and get to the nitty gritty, we don't have another 50 years to figure that out. We have to be very proactive and we have to be modest. We have to be humble and we have to trust that young people like Gretta or Malala or whoever it is that's a young, compassionate spirit speaking the truth. Shaun Don: 00:50:06 We have to honor those, those spirits and as people who have authority, we have to put them in positions to where their voice can be heard. And I think that's what we all would have wanted at some point when we experienced a trauma of any sort. We just want to be heard. And there's young people out there who they, they're not waiting to be heard. They're taking the poll now. And I come in that and my daughter is very much going to be a reflection of not standing your ground, but figuring out how to make a mountain that others can stand on with her. So I'm, I'm doing everything in my power. I'm learning from a martial arts instructor who was a world champion and I plan to work with him to ultimately have him work with her and so I can work with her so she can defend herself spiritually, physically, and mentally. Shaun Don: 00:51:14 All of the ways in which I have struggled. I want her to be able to take by the horns and be like, I'm not going to struggle with these decisions and I will be the leader that I need to be because it's in my bloodline to be a leader and it's in my blood line to be a compassionate leader. And I just, I wrote a poem called, should I have a daughter before me in a Jameela that's my partner in pieces name before she was ever conceived, I wrote a poem called, should I have a daughter? And it was basically an ode to if I was my mom's father, what would I really want her to know. And at the same time it was me saying to my daughter, this is what you need to know about yourself so that nobody can take your story. Shaun Don: 00:52:13 Because I am writing at least what I know about our story in this poll, you will not be denied the history that I was denied and I had to fight for. I'm giving you what I do know and I'm also going to surround you with people who love unconditionally. So you don't need to run and figure out who will love you. You will know what love is and you will know what love feels like. So over the past year I've just been providing myself and developing for myself different tools to put in my tool kit of thrive thriving. I don't want to say survival at this point cause I'm learning to thrive under pressure, but I'm learning to thrive under circumstance. I'm learning to thrive regardless of what I have. And I just want to model that. And over time, like I do make music but over time I want to say nothing because I want my actions to predetermine what people ever think of me and think of our family. Shaun Don: 00:53:23 So it's just a, it's a day to day process that it takes a lot of humility. It takes a lot of courage and you know, I know oil is going to be just fine cause everybody else, my, my grandma for example, she had my mom in the bathroom by herself, you know, like there was no doctor, there was no mother, there was no stepdad, there was nobody. My grandma had my mom in the bathroom by herself. My mom had me at 14 years old, so they've already done the heavy lifting of getting me here. And then I waited till 25 to have a child. Not under the best circumstances, but I knew that I was capable of providing, should that responsibility be blessed to me and just with that knowledge alone, like I said, oil is going to be fine. I'm not, I'm not tripping about anything. Shaun Don: 00:54:22 What an amazing story about your grandmother. Like all by herself. I mean that's bad ass, right? That's hashtag bad ass. No, no medicine, no nothing. And the further that the interests, you know she's white, you know, this is the other grandma, not the non black Panther, but my white grandma had a mixed child in the bathroom by herself. Wow. As a 19 year old. I want to step back to that poem how you were thinking through writing it as if from your grandmother to your mom. Right. That's awesome man. Cause I'm thinking if I was my mom's dad, you know, like what would I really tell her because I initially, to be honest, I was mad at her about something, but I find I can write out my feelings and one of my challenges is no matter how mad I am at somebody or something, I, I encourage myself to write compassionately. Shaun Don: 00:55:35 Like what would I really want this person to know so that they can understand my perspective. Because if I respond with anger or animosity, they're not going to hear me at all. So I have to be really intentional about my words and my approach. And then over that time period I'm like, wow, you know, if this is something that I would want my mom to know, then in essence it would be what my daughter is going to know because I'm taking the time right now. Like I journal whenever I get anxiety about something, like I just, I have this this journal where I just write to my daughter, even though she's six months old, she's already going to have a whole bunch of things to just sit with and like when she's ready for that type of information, I'll have it just right there because I know she's going to have a lot of questions. Shaun Don: 00:56:32 She's going to have a lot of curiosities. She's going to, she's, she's a leader, you know, like that's who is, who she is destined to be. And at the same time I'm going to respect her own path as she discovers it. Because what I want anybody to know is you're worth it. You know you're capable. And I think if my mom would've just really known that at 13 years old, I wouldn't exist. Like I really wouldn't exist if her dad was there because she would have thought more of her own self. She would have bought more about her sexuality and about who to, to set boundaries with how to set boundaries. And at the same time I can also empathize with my mom's father, my granddad, because I'm like, well, who was really teaching him the dynamics of being a healthy man, let alone a healthy black man in the sixties seventies eighties you know? So it, I guess once I came to a understanding that like life happens for the reasons that it does, it allows a lot of self forgiveness and it allows one to move with the, the desire to just be present in the moment. Like don't focus too much on what the past was and what happened. Don't focus too much on the future and what has not happened, but do something in the present moment that makes the future a little bit better than what is going on right now and we'll be okay. Gabe Ratliff: 00:58:20 Yeah, it's interesting because I was thinking about when I was a kid, what I was hearing was don't get a girl pregnant, you know? It was like pummeled in my brain and it freaked me out. It freaked me out and I, you know, and I shared that with my mom when I got older. I was like, that really freaked me out. Like I was F I was so afraid that I was going to get a girl pregnant that it actually like kind of jacked me up and how I engaged with women as a heterosexual male growing up in my teenage years. And they also were having issues when I was going into high school. Then they ended up getting divorced when I was going into my freshman year of high school. Really? Wow. Yeah. So I mean that was like pivotal. You've gone through puberty, you're like really starting to get in touch with yourself and literally and figuratively and like you're, you know, you're getting more hormones, you're getting all of these things like your cheer growing up into becoming a man and no matter where you end up falling with sexual preference, that's a pivotal time to have the partnership that you've grown up with that's been watching over. Gabe Ratliff: 00:59:40 You start to implode and that mixed with don't get a girl pregnant, don't get pregnant. Definitely had some repercussions so that that was, I mean at that point you'd been writing, you've been writing lyrics and you'd been harnessing that creative side to be able to kind of have an outlet. Can you speak to that? Shaun Don: 01:00:06 My lyrics really took a hard pause during the whole divorce process. Like from 13 to 15 I just, I was not as creative as I'd say like 16 or 17 is when I really, I entered into my writing seriously, like a seriously for a teenager at least. And during those first few years of high school, it was just very intimidating and it's like I was always a good student. You know, I was obedient, if you will. But I think it was just really difficult because of like having a social worker come to East high school and say, Hey, you know, like what's going on? Like are you doing okay? And I'm like, dude, I don't fucking know you. You know, like, who are you? So now that I've, I've worked among social workers, I can appreciate a social worker being present and at the same time I'm like, I think at times the construct of social work within society is just, it's very, it's very difficult to receive in a healthy way because as a young person who's going through a trauma, Speaker 7: 01:01:39 Oh Shaun Don: 01:01:40 You don't, or at least I didn't know who to talk to or who to trust. I had a wavering relationship with my mom because I felt like the things that she taught me as a young person don't hit a girl, don't, you know, call women bitches and like that type of stuff. I'm like, well, I'm seeing you and my dad, my stepdad, like hit each other and stuff. So it's like, how can I trust you if you don't do what you say I'm supposed to do and think that's where a little bit of like my cleft though all the stealing and like that's when those behaviors started to happen because I could get out my aggression through football, you know, I could just go to practice by the end of class and I'm ready to knock somebody's head off. And that was dealing with it. Shaun Don: 01:02:42 So that was like my art in those first couple of years of high school. But when football didn't really work out for me or I just didn't commit to it, I would have been a kick ass NFL athlete if that's what I wanted to do. And I was like, there's no point in banging my head against, you know, 300 pound people by 16 and 17 I was like really focusing on how, how do I articulate how these various issues are making me really feel like the first song I ever wrote and recorded with a producer was called stress. I'm basically saying I'm so stressed, such a mess. My heart's racing like a NASCAR. My mind is a mess. I'm so stressed. And it's like that's me at 16 talking about how all these different things are just making me feel like I don't have a voice or I don't have a place to be myself. Shaun Don: 01:03:52 And over the course of two years I worked on articulating now a little bit and then I went to college and started just focusing on college cause then it was like, all right, well I'm back in the school institution. I got to kind of be obedient slash I was told growing up like no one can ever take your education away from you. So I did take education serious and at that time there wasn't really a real balance between I'm making music and at the same time I have two jobs at all times throughout college, still taking in loans, paying my own red and then like trying to do full time at school as well. So I think all of those different dynamics ultimately led me to being a lyricist and entrepreneur at the same time because I've always had to juggle whether it was being a big brother with parents going through a divorce and domestic violence and that type of stuff, or trying to make music while working multiple jobs and also being a student and student leader on campus. Yeah. Wow. I wanted to ask you about Wildcat Gabe Ratliff: 01:05:18 Angels. Could you talk about that? Shaun Don: 01:05:21 Yeah, definitely. I'll read the organization mission. It goes Wildcat angels offer support to families who desire communal healing of intergenerational trauma while providing creative tools for resilience through strength-based, relationship-building practices. The name was constructed of the last two mascots that I experienced through education, so Kansas state university, Wildcats, East high angels or East high school angels, so I was like Wildcat angels and the logo itself is a combination of a tiger and a black Panther because there's DNN young and everything. You know, you have to know your feminine side as a man and as a woman you have to know your masculine side and behind the mission itself is the need to explore those deeper realms of the South, the masculine and the feminine. But I want to work with individuals who are seeking out their life. And I say that strategically because I've worked with people who only see dark and will only move within darkness. Shaun Don: 01:06:48 That is not the demographic who I am going to focus my energy on because that's a lot of energy. However, there are certain individuals and there are certain organizations that are focused on trying to address systematic pain, whether that's through gender, whether that's a race, any of the isms. And I intend to work with the realities in which they have experienced trauma and essentially give insight into their own inner peace. Because if we can look at our home healthy selves, even if it's just a small thing that we can identify, well, I'm alive. Like that's one healthy aspect of myself. Well what do we do with that life? What? What do we do with our mornings? What do we do with our evenings? So Wildcat angels essentially is an organization that prioritizes the healing of systematic trauma. Gabe Ratliff: 01:08:05 There was something that you mentioned in the questionnaire. I feel like this would be a good time to ask you about, cause I was fascinated by it and I started doing some research but I'd love your insight to it. But it, it's the post traumatic slave syndrome. I was wondering if you could talk about that and dr joy and like the work that she's doing and, and just what this is for people that don't know. Cause this is fascinating to me and like where it's where she's trying to take it. Shaun Don: 01:08:33 Right? So dr joy, the group, she is very new, like I learned about her in 2019 but this, this concept of post traumatic slave syndrome. Like if we really think about all those different dynamics, it kinda ties into like Wildcat angels because there's a system that led to people being scarred in. Those scars are genetically passed down to the next person. And that person may or may not have fears that the parent had based off the fact that the parent went through some sort of trauma. And so if we were to think about PTSD, you know, if somebody goes to war and sees a a fellow soldier get blown up, like that's going to leave some, some major emotional social baggage. And when I think about what dr joy is saying, it's, it's just a very specific type of PTSD as it relates to those who have been involved in the slave trade. Shaun Don: 01:09:56 So what I would love to see at some point is like a Bernay Brown working with dr joy to grew in getting some, some awareness first, and then funding for programs to really address how vulnerability has to be respected as it relates to cultural norms, as well as historical traumas. Because like I love Bernay Brown's approach in one of the big issues with trying to have cultures who have been marginalized open up is the cultures that we try to open up to have historically use that openness to oppress and to take advantage of. So I just look at the PTSS as a way of informing the love that needs to be reintroduced to the world in a very healthy way. Cause it's like when are we going to really talk about what slavery did to at least a few million people, you know, like who wants to really go there and talk about it? Shaun Don: 01:11:29 I feel like depending on who you are, that's going to be difficult for any of us. But for us to really get into like, well how can we make that right? Can we really talk about like stuff like reparations and can we really talk about like maybe education should just be free. You know, like how can we really address something that makes people genetically afraid of stuff like cops genetically afraid of any white male. You know what I mean? Like there's just so many different variables in play when I think of post traumatic slave syndrome. But that's, that's kind of my personal take on it. Gabe Ratliff: 01:12:12 Yeah. This is a question that I've been bringing up on certain episodes because I've really been curious about, you know, how we can take action because we can, you and I can have this conversation and I can be completely open to your message and where you're coming from and we can be, you know, aligned like on a similar wavelength and we can, we can have, you know, a lot of connections like with our parents when they split for both of us and like we both had creativity to tap into. We can have those connections like that and those similarities. But I'm curious about when we talk about shame and vulnerability or opportunism, how do you see us taking what we're doing here to the next level and, and continuing to make action and have conversations like reparations and you know, free schooling and all the things that are related to being able to move past the past and do something about it now. Shaun Don: 01:13:24 Well, the motto for Wildcat angels is find your voice, love your story. That is really what I feel we need to do. We have to find what will make us speak. You know, if somebody is experiencing violence, that's a relative. One time my mom was assaulted by a white woman out in Kansas and it's like when I saw my mom in the hospital, like I was sad and I didn't really know how to respond cause I had never seen my mom. Like she's, she's fought with grown men before, but you know, she just was like this woman like beat up pretty bad in it. There were multiple things that I felt because she was able to still kind of laugh it off because it was like a Halloween time of year. And my mom was like, I got beat up by Dorothy and you know, like it was hard for me not to laugh. Shaun Don: 01:14:34 And I'm like, damn, at least you're seeing the funniness in it. But this is kind of jacked up. So at first I was upset at my mom because she didn't fight. She didn't really, even from what she told me, she chose not to fight back. And that really irritated me for a couple of years actually. And over time I started to, to process her situation and I kind of put myself in her shoes to the best that I could. And it was like, it made sense, you know, why would a black woman like fight back in a situation where like she's in a red state on a military base where a white woman chose to follow my mom home after my mom honked at her because she was sitting in the middle of the room. You know like when you have two cars that are just kind of like taking up both lanes and you're just trying to get by him. Shaun Don: 01:15:49 But these two cars were like having a legit conversation. So my mom, she told me that she honked the horn and tried to go about our business and then this woman followed her to try to think to Freddy's I guess watched her get a burger and then order all the way home. And I'm like, damn, you know, that's, that's crazy. And I was so angry when I saw that the lady who beat my mom up was just in the cop car just chilling like, like nothing was really wrong. Obviously something happened, but they're not, they're not rushing her to go to jail. They're not doing anything about the situation. And that was probably the most painful thing. Not necessarily seeing my mom hurting, but seeing her get no authentic justice. And I just say that, and I mentioned this story because I feel like when we do find our voice and when we do see something that makes us have a little bit of a reaction, not a response, but something that causes us to react a little bit, then we have to explore that feeling. Shaun Don: 01:17:13 You know, what is making us react and can we get to a point where we channel that reaction into a response that ultimately becomes an action where we want to find other lights seekers who were like, yeah, I've been through some type of hell and at the same time I know I cannot perpetuate the hell I have to perpetuate the response rather than the reaction. Because if everybody keeps reacting, we're not going to get anywhere. So just to put a simple like we have to, we have to know what we care about and we have to trust our ability to care about that thing because there's no specific thing that's going to make everybody be like, yo, we need to just jump up, jump up and get moving. So I just really encourage us to, to find out who we are and what we really do care about and kind of go from there. Gabe Ratliff: 01:18:23 I love that motto very much. I definitely connect with that because that's part of what I'm doing with this show. You know, I want people to have their voice, you know, and be able to share their story and have these kinds of deeper conversations where I can learn about what your life was like and share what mine was like and find that place of, of connection. And you know how we show up and like how we can, you know, part of my mission is to have this space where we can take action by having these conversations and that hopefully somebody can hear this and it can, it can click something can jive with them and like, Oh I understand. I've been through that too. Shaun Don: 01:19:13 I think whatever our gifts are, we just have to be very intentional about putting time and energy towards those cause who knows what we can do and who knows what we will accomplish when we just put the time and energy towards our experience and expertise on top of a, a real purpose. Like I'm just enjoying life right now because I'm seeing doors open because I actually given them and when I didn't give a damn, it seemed like every door was kind of closed. So the funding thing is always when we see some light and we're able to keep running towards it and give it them opportunities come in abundance because we're open to receive those blessings. Gabe Ratliff: 01:20:14 Well, I mean that seems like a perfect place to start to wind us down here. Thank you so much for sharing that. I mean, wow, so much stuff in here to think about that we've talked about. I have some fun wrap up questions that I like to do towards the end of the episode. My first question is what is your favorite documentary or movie Shaun Don: 01:20:36 When it comes to documentaries? I've had an obsession with animals for a minute. You know, since I was a kid I used to love watching anything about like the ocean and reptiles and so now like I can really appreciate, and I, this is going to be vague, but like I can really appreciate any documentary about like wolves because I love how they operate as a pack. I love how there's a family structure and everybody has a role and I also love anything about tigers because they're just like, they're very majestic and it's like they know how to defend themselves no matter if it's the woman tiger, the or the female tiger, the male tiger, like they just get shit done and they don't, they don't need anything because they were just born to be dominant. So like documentaries on animals are huge. And then like movies, I really enjoy Friday like that. It's one of those things, I don't watch it every year, but anytime I watch it it's just funny, you know. Gabe Ratliff: 01:21:52 What is the book or books you've given most as a gift or that you love to read? Are there like your favorites? Shaun Don: 01:22:00 Definitely the Alchemist. That's a big one. That's the only book that I've read twice. So I just, I love Palo Quillo his message and I feel like when we're truly searching for like yourself, like that's a really good read. And I also read like a lot of bell hooks and college and that inspired me to want to go meet her. So, and Bell Hooks, anything just in that arena as it relates to love and the whole patriarchal system and kind of like spiritual self help type of themes. Like I really enjoy that type of stuff. Gabe Ratliff: 01:22:51 Yeah, I recommend way of the peaceful warrior by Dan Millman. If, if if you get a chance to read that one, that one. I actually, that's one of the ones I give out a lot. I love that book. Yeah. It's so great. What advice would you give to your younger self? Shaun Don: 01:23:07 Well it was funny cause my younger self used to give my older self a lot of advice. I used to write letters to myself and I think right now if I were to write something to my younger self it would be all right. Like there's nothing, there's nothing that you're going through that is going to prohibit you from being who you're supposed to become and within that love life to the fullest. Gabe Ratliff: 01:23:45 Nice. Is there anything else you'd like to say? Any last parting words to the audience? Anything we didn't cover? Shaun Don: 01:23:55 Yeah, for everybody who listens to this podcast and to anybody who enjoys you as a person or who enjoys me as a person or who wants to know more, just feel free to just reach out and just make sure that you know, we are all in this, this fight for love and fight with community together and no matter what we are going through as individuals, there's somebody on the planet who's going through something similar, worse or better. And we have to trust that there are enough people who want the better for the world because faith is all we have. I just really want to emphasize that where we're heading in the right direction and don't give up. Gabe Ratliff: 01:25:02 Oh man. Here, here, here, here. So last question. Where can people find you on the interwebs if they want to support you? Shaun Don thA TRUTH or if they want to support or learn more about Wildcat angels. Shaun Don: 01:25:17 So right now my Instagram is the best way to just check out updates. Wildcat Angels is still in the motion. I just got the logo made not too long ago and I'm going to start seeking out contracts throughout 2020 but just to reach me in general, my Instagram is Shaun, S. H A U N underscore, D. O. N. Underscore, T. H. A. Underscore, T. R. U. T. H. So Shaun, Don the truth. You can also check out my SoundCloud, Shaun Don thA TRUTH. Gabe Ratliff: 01:25:59 Sweet. Well Shaun, man, thank you so much for this. I appreciate the stories and I appreciate the work you're doing. I appreciate the message that you're putting out there. Thank you for sharing the poetry and just keep up the great work, man. Keep up the, the, the fight for love. Yeah, I appreciate your time and expertise, but outside of that, man, it's been a blessing. Gabe Ratliff: 01:26:23 Well, that's it for this episode. If this is your first time listening, thank you so much for being here. I really hope you enjoyed the show. The Artful Entrepreneur podcast comes out bi-weekly and is available every other Thursday for your enjoyment and all links and show notes for this episode can be found at theartful.co. If you haven't yet, please subscribe to the show and leave a rating or review on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you'd like to be a guest or know someone that would be a great fit, please go to theartful.co/guest and thanks again for listening. Until next time.