012: Maggie Hart - Using the gift of storytelling to create positive cultural shifts

As a self-starter in the indie film world, Maggie Hart is no stranger to wearing multiple hats with shoestring budgets. While attending film school and working full-time as a production manager, Maggie had the crazy idea to make a feature film. Over the next five years she wrote, directed, produced, and edited what would become her first feature, Impressions. After moving to Los Angeles from Colorado, she did the same thing with a comedy web series called, “The Romantic Method.” She also produced the dramedy feature, Instructions For Living, which won the audience award at the Twin Cities film festival in 2017. The rest of her years in LA were spent as an award-winning writer, commercial producer, and screenwriting teacher. She recently made a big shift out of LA and into documentary filmmaking. She currently lives in Kansas City where she works as an documentary editor for Exodus Cry/Magic Lantern pictures, an organization dedicated to breaking the cycle of commercial sexual exploitation. No matter what medium she’s using, Maggie is passionate about crafting stories that make a difference.

In this episode we talk about:

  • the process of making her film, Impressions, which took 9 years to complete

  • how it’s hard to say goodbye to projects

  • her time in Los Angeles and how losing out on her dream job showed her true calling

  • the emerging “woman’s voice” in the film/tv industry

  • how her faith plays a part in the work she puts out into the world


This episode is brought to you by GATHORA. 
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Maggie Hart: 00:00:00 Tell your stories like that. You know, if you have a passion in your heart to like tell a story, like tell that story, but like take a beat and think about you know there. There's ways that you can do it that will be where your, where you're really thinking about the things that you're putting into the world. You know, like tell that story but just do it in a responsible way.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:00:25 Welcome to The Vitalic Project podcast where you'll learn how to find your own voice in a world filled with noise. I'm Gabe Ratliff. I'll be your host as I sit down with fellow artists, creators and entrepreneurs to learn more about their work and how they serve others so that you can tap into your creative purpose and live a life that's drawn, not traced. All right. I'm stoked. Let's get to it.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:00:54 Hey guys, thanks so much for joining me on another episode of The Vitalic Project. On this episode, I sit down with Maggie Hart. Maggie is owner of Farsighted Films, is a writer, director, and she is a dear friend. We've worked together in several different ways on short film called Fearless as well as a corporate job where we were on the production team and let me tell you a little bit about Maggie. She's a self starter in the indie film world and is no stranger to wearing multiple hats with shoestring budgets, while attending film school and working full time as a production manager. She had the crazy idea to make a feature film and over the next five years she wrote, directed, produced and edited what would become her first feature, called Impressions. After she moved to Los Angeles from Colorado, she did the same thing with a comedy web series called "The Romantic Method".

Gabe Ratliff: 00:01:48 She also produced the dramedy feature, Instructions for Living, which won the audience award at the Twin Cities Film Festival in 2017 the rest of her years in LA were spent as an award-winning writer, commercial producer and screenwriting teacher. She recently made a big shift out of LA and into documentary filmmaking. She currently lives in Kansas City where she works as a documentary editor for Exodus Cry/Magic Lantern pictures and organization dedicated to breaking the cycle of commercial sexual exploitation no matter what medium she's using. Maggie is passionate about crafting stories that make a difference. And let me tell you that is 100% true. We dive into that today and this episode we talk about the process of making her film impressions, which took up to nine years to complete. And it has a fascinating story about how she was strategic about breaking that out to make that come together.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:02:43 And also just seeing that through and finishing the project even though it took quite a bit longer than most projects normally do. And we also talk about how hard it was to say goodbye to that project and just to projects in general. And we also dive into what it was like being in Los Angeles during the, uh, you know, post mi two times up Hollywood and what it was like to be there for that. And we also go even further into this new thing that we're seeing in the industry with more and more women as writers and directors like herself, where we're actually starting to finally see and hear what it's like to truly have a female voice. And that's what the, how the feminine voice is actually different than what has historically been several times over for decades now. It's been men writing in a women's voice and a woman's voice.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:03:44 And it's fascinating to me how this is really starting to come out now. And you're starting to see these stories where you can feel the difference and you can really hear it in the storytelling. And so we dive into that and we even at the, at the, towards the end of the episode, we even get into her faith and how that also plays a part in her mission with her work. And I really appreciate her taking the time and being vulnerable in that way to talk about something like that that is not always the sexy topic in public and in the industry. And so I really look forward to you hearing more from Maggie and our conversation about her work and the film industry today and where that's going. So let's get to it. Maggie, thank you so much for being on the show. I'm so excited to have you here.

Maggie Hart: 00:04:49 Oh, it's so great to be here. Thank you.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:04:52 It's so good to see you, man. It's been, oh my gosh, it's been years.

Maggie Hart: 00:04:57 Okay. It's actually been years. Yeah, many, many years. Too many.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:05:04 Did we just say years and go holy cow. So it's great to catch up with you. Thanks for being here. I know you had a, you had a day in front of you and I appreciate you meeting later in the afternoon to, uh, to do the interview.

Maggie Hart: 00:05:18 Why I'm so excited to be here.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:05:21 I thought we would jump into, you know, what I like to call the CliffsNotes, you know, just kind of give listeners an idea of, you know, just a brief history of you know, who you are and um, you know, where are you kind of where this all kind of started for you and, and uh, what you're doing.

Maggie Hart: 00:05:39 Yeah. I mean, I, I've been a filmmaker. I feel like my whole life, I, when I was six years old, I was making terrible home videos with my dad's video camera and I did, did a lot of editing in high school and just always knew that I wanted to be a filmmaker or wanted to write, want to drag one of the edits, just all kinds of things. So I went to film school after high school and um, when I was in film school, I really started just writing and directing. It was like a great film school where they just threw camera that you do when you just like make a bunch of movies, which was awesome. They were all terrible, of course. But, um, yeah, I mean that's, I, I feel like I've always been been making films and I think as far as professionally, I have done a wide range of, of things.

Maggie Hart: 00:06:34 I, when I was in film school, I made a feature film as a romantic comedy. Um, so I have made, I've written and made several romantic comedies since then. So I think that's the one thing that I'm quote unquote known for writing romantic comedies. I also, through editing and through working in post production, um, I've done a lot of editing. I've done a lot of post production supervising, producing, that sort of thing. So I have a extensive background in post production. And then, uh, both in, in Denver, uh, where I live, um, up until about three years ago. And then I moved to La to pursue more of the writing and the filmmaking. I'm trying to see, trying to get out of post production and into, um, writing and thinking that I wanted to write for television. Had a whole series of, of experiences there where I realized that, um, I actually didn't enjoy writing professionally. Um, I love writing. I love making my own films, but I actually really didn't enjoy, nor did I find fulfilling, um, working in the industry. So I actually very recently just moved out to Kansas City or I now work for a nonprofit film production company that makes, uh, documentaries about sex trafficking and um, the commercial sex industry. So it's kind of a 180 shift.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:08:07 Yeah, wow!

Maggie Hart: 00:08:09 yeah.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:08:14 I was, I was so excited too. I'm not excited that something like this has to exist. But I was so excited to see that you, when you, in your questionnaire, when you put that, you know, that you made this jump from, and I, I definitely want to dive into this and a little bit more, you know, just recognizing that the dream job that everybody thinks about, you know, going to LA and writing professionally and you know, TV and film and all these things and doing all this work and actually working on features and all, you know, these things, it looks so exciting and then d and to have done this your whole life and to get to that point and then have that realization is so brave to then say, you know what? I actually have something that's so much more important to me that I wanted, you know, go to a whole new state and jump into this, you know, very purposeful and really relevant job that is doing something so beautiful. Uh, you know, to help with this terrible, um, thing that we have going on around the world. And, uh, so I commend you on that night. I commend that bravery to make that step because that's a big going, just go in La is a big step, but then to say, Nah, I'm going to go this way and do that 180 is um, that's, that's pretty amazing.

Maggie Hart: 00:09:46 Oh well thank you. Yeah, I mean for me it's um, I have the, the company that I worked for now it's called Exodus Cry. They, um, I've been, I've known about them for years and I've always loved the work that they do and human trafficking has always been really like close to my heart and, and for me, you know, it's kind of just putting the pieces together of why I wanted to write and why I wanted to meet some. And for me it wasn't, it was never like an entertainment wise. I mean obviously I wanted to entertain, but I always thought everything I made as contributing to a culture and very concerned, or at least I'm aware of how the things that I was writing are the things that I was making were sending a message in one way or another. Whether you're talking about representation or you know, the themes of your film and that type of thing. So I think it's actually, I appreciate you you saying that I'm there that I'm brave to do this, but honestly now I feel like I can breathe because I'm actually doing something that not only I can be proud of that, that I, I know that I'm contributing something good into the culture that we live in.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:11:07 Hear! Hear!

Maggie Hart: 00:11:08 Yeah.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:11:09 I, I do have to say I've just as I'm listening you talk about this, just thinking about, you know, cause I also know you to be such a comedic powerhouse, you know, and like writing romantic comedies and all of these things. You know, what worked on fearless together, the short film and there was all these little subtle things in there that were super funny to be talking about. Such a specific topic for that piece. And you know, all of the other things that I know about you come from that place. So it's really interesting for me to have to see this shift, you know, where you're doing something that's so impactful and so serious. And so very, you know, it's very, very different, um, work, but it comes from similarly a place of purity and purpose. Um, but just to this different lens and a, so I, I just was thinking about that as you were talking. I'm like, wow, this is such an arc for you to see you go on, but to hear that about how you can actually now you can breathe and you feel so settled in this place where you're actually doing work like this. That's, that's awesome. I love it.

Maggie Hart: 00:12:25 Yeah, that's great. Well I open do, I do still write, um, you know, I write my own stuff and I actually just found out that one of those scripts I wrote when I was in La is getting produced this year. So I'm super excited about that. Fantastic. Um, so yeah, so I'm just continue. I do, you know, I, I feel like I have a really eclectic mix of things that I've done and so I'm going to continue to do many different things.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:12:51 Of course. Of course.

Maggie Hart: 00:12:53 Yeah. Cause I do like to be funny.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:12:57 Of course. Well, and I know one of these days you're going to write a Spiderman movie, I hope. I hope.

Maggie Hart: 00:13:03 Oh yeah. Uh Huh. Absolutely.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:13:07 That's what I want. I want you to be the Patty Jenkins for Spiderman as she. Oh my gosh. That would be amazing. Right? That was actually what I thought of when she did wonder woman in it was a hit. I was like, there we go. This is just setting it up for you, making it happen. Right. Can finally do your own Spiderman movie.

Maggie Hart: 00:13:29 Well, I'll, I'll pitch right now. You know what I really want to make as the Spider Gwen movie?

Gabe Ratliff: 00:13:34 Yes. That was actually my question. I was going to say actually wouldn't you prefer a Spider Gwen movie?

Maggie Hart: 00:13:40 I actually absolutely would.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:13:43 What do you think about doing it like an animated Spider Verse sequel with Spider Gwen? Yeah. Maggie. Hi. Ooh, that's what I'm talking about. I would actually world. That's right. You heard it here first.

Maggie Hart: 00:14:02 Well, I'm available to direct.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:14:05 What's that?

Maggie Hart: 00:14:08 I said Maggie Hart is available to direct the Spider Gwen Spider Verse movie.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:14:13 Oh my God.

Maggie Hart: 00:14:15 That's why they didn't ask me to direct the first one. They just didn't know that I was available. So I'm really glad that I can be on this podcast to tell them,

Gabe Ratliff: 00:14:26 Are you listening? Did you just hear that she's available? Spider Gwen. I know it's coming. Yes, it's done too. Well, it's like the best Spiderman movie ever. They're saying, yes,

Maggie Hart: 00:14:40 it is the best Spiderman movie ever.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:14:42 Now it's time to top it. Spider Gwen. Maggie Hart. And I, you know, the funny thing is I could absolutely see that an animated spider Gwen by Maggie Hart, I could totally see it. I remember talking to you about Spiderman Noir that I'm super into who's actually in Spider Verse. And so, uh, I just remembered, I haven't conversations about that back in the day. And like, that's like the one that I thought, man, it'd be so great if they did the new r series, but then they incorporated it. So it's been, it's now been teased. Yeah.

Maggie Hart: 00:15:20 Uh, it's still be cool to see like an actual Spiderman war. Like what sort of like how uh, Marvel's Netflix shows are like super dark. Yup. Wouldn't mind not to be really cool. I bet

Gabe Ratliff: 00:15:32 That was actually what I was thinking. Like what a great venue after they did those and you know, they started to cancel them and kind of wind them down in whatever plan. I know they have some big master plan they're going to do with it, but I was actually having that same thought of like, man, this would be a great venue to do some of those side stories like that that have the opportunity to live in that space of you know, the longer form and they can be a little bit off. They don't have to fit the like um, big cable company budget like agents of shield and things like that or the other than a full movie. But I digress. So I wanted to ask you, I want to, I want to now jump back. I want to go back to the Little Maggie that you brought up who was, as you said, making really bad movies as a child. When did, when did you first, when do you remember, I wanted to ask you about writing separately of film. When did you fall in love with and like know that you wanted to, right.

Maggie Hart: 00:16:40 I started out editing that was like my first love film. And then when I got the film school, everybody wanted to be a director because nobody knew what anything else was. Um, like we're all just going to be directors. But then we had, we would, we had to write what we were going to direct. So is, we're all writers, directors. But actually through the process of making my first feature, I wrote it, I directed it, I edited it, I produce it, you know, it was like my baby. And I remember thinking like after the whole process was done, that the writing was most fun. That like if I made another movie, I can get someone else edit it or I can, um, I probably like they'll direct it, but that the writing was the most fun for me. And I really just enjoyed that first seven a process where you don't have to worry about how you're going to produce it or are executing a plan or anything that you can just put something into the page. And then I also thought that to me the writer has the most power in creating the content. And so I never really wanted to come in after someone else had written something to like execute a vision. They always just wanted to be creating the content.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:18:05 Now what about with film? Like how did you, I mean you said from childhood you were immediately, you know, just constantly making films with Your Dad's camera. I mean, what, do you remember, you know, your first films. Can you talk about those or do you remember, you know, when, how old you were when you first started picking it up and making films?

Maggie Hart: 00:18:32 I very specifically, I remember I was five and my brother and I were super obsessed with dinosaurs and so we wanted to be drafted and you're begging my parents to see it. And I remember my mom finally like page, she was like, all right, we'll let you see Jurassic cart. You have to understand that is not real. And I was like, what do you mean? And she was like, well, it's the movie and you know, they're actors and film it and all this stuff. And I was like, wait, hang on, you're telling me that? Like that's a thing that people can do. And so yeah, after once, I like once she explained like the concept of what a movie was. Okay. Sounds like the most clutter. So most of my early, most of my early work, uh, from when I was six years old is like really, really bad. Um, Jurassic Park River. Yes. Like my little, whether in a dinosaur costume and I'm like hitting the ground where there's a cup of water. So it like ripples. Yeah, like all because of Jurassic Park.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:19:50 Thank you sir. Thank you for your greatness. I don't know if you heard about this series, but did you hear about the, um, Jim Cameron series that was on SYFY about science fiction? It was, um, no, so it was like robots, monsters. Trying to think of what else it would be, but it was basically, I think it's six episodes, but he interviews Spielberg, Guillermo del Toro, George Lucas. Cool. Yeah. And it's, I mean, it's all these people, Sigourney weaver, you know, all these people tied to science fiction films. Yeah, they do. I just saw the, one of the monsters and they actually, he interviews spillover again, they talk about making Jurassic Park and, uh, very cool series. Highly recommend it. It's really neat because, you know, he's, he's just as integral integral in science fiction is, you know, all the other groups. I mean, he's done so much for being with Avatar and the abyss aliens of course. But I mean, just so you mean that's in my top five ever best movies ever.

Maggie Hart: 00:21:04 best movies. Yeah. Are you an Alien or Aliens or both?

Gabe Ratliff: 00:21:10 I'm both. I'm also a huge, Ridley Scott Fan. He and Jim Cameron are pretty much my go tos. Um, I loved them, but so much. I love Blade Runner. I love Alien. I love The Martian. I think The Martian is phenomenal. Yeah, I've watched that movie like 20 times. I love it. It's so funny. And like when he, you know, the sciencing the shit out of this and blowing himself up and the, you know, hello there. And like talking to the, you know, I was just like, and the coke head ingenue versus like the high school Olan Mills senior photo. I mean, such great. I thought it was really, I remember, what's that

Maggie Hart: 00:22:02 when he says he's a space pirate?

Gabe Ratliff: 00:22:04 Yes. He's a space pirate. And like the thing I thought was so funny as you knew at one academy award for comedy and you could see Ridley just being like, what? Oh yeah.

Maggie Hart: 00:22:16 What do you made a joke about that too? The hilarious film,

Gabe Ratliff: 00:22:19 right?

Maggie Hart: 00:22:20 The Martian.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:22:22 I thought it was so funny. He's just like, what? Wait, what? And you're like, yeah, come on man. It, well, it's just a different kind of humor.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:22:30 Yeah.

Maggie Hart: 00:22:30 Love how they blur the lines of a comedy and drama and all of that just to various films can win.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:22:38 Exactly. That's what I mean. Like I just was like, wait, what it, it's a comedy. Well, I guess, yeah. And then I watched it again and was like, yeah, I mean I guess, but not really, but it won. So I was like, it's fine. I love it. It just validated me and why I love it. So I'll take it. So one of the things I wanted to ask you about stepping a little forward is the name of your company. I love the name of your company. I'm also far sighted so I really love the name of your company. Um, I was wondering if you could share this story of farsighted films and its meaning and where the name came from. Cause I really liked that.

Maggie Hart: 00:23:24 Wow. The part that it's um, uh, it was actually,

Maggie Hart: 00:23:30 it was a few different things. One of my favorite songs is called far sighted by a firearm frenzy and the chorus is the rockets are burning and the dreamers are at full swing and you know, in your heart that the far side is the better thing. And I just, I love that. And I love as far as when I was thinking about the types of films that I wanted to make, I always wanted to make like really hope filled things. And you know, going back to the idea of like contributing to a culture, like things that would either like create change or you know, have a, have a lasting effect, not just when it's released like this year, but over time essentially. Cause I think that we're so like content driven now, it's all about like just make content and then like make things and there's just so much noise that I don't think people are thinking about what they're making or how they're making it. They're just like trying to get their voice out there. So yeah, to just kind of look like, not in the immediate but like horrified, you know, farsighted, you can't see up close. These can only be far away. So

Gabe Ratliff: 00:24:46 mmm.

Maggie Hart: 00:24:47 And the, and for me, because I'm, I am farsighted, um, that I didn't necessarily think that that was a bad thing.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:24:56 Yeah. I read that and I just started chuckling and true. And I also am farsighted so I can connect with it even more. Yeah. I really, I appreciate that and respect that so much because it's true. You know, like it's, I love that you took the time to think about, I mean it's, it's, it's got that comedic element, which of course it would if you came up with it, but then it also has this meaning behind it that is also you. And I think so. Great. And I love that it stems from that because it's true. I mean that's, that's also what I'm trying to do with these, these interviews is to really shine a light on people that are doing really great creative work and at the same time making a difference, you know? And that can continue to grow and people can go back and, you know, they may find the show years from now but can still learn something about something that they might not have known about or about a person that they want to support.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:26:02 And it, it may be able to be something that's going to actually directly support you. And maybe that's with work or whatever. And so that's something I really love about these is that we get to dive in deeper into who you are and what you're doing and touch on those things and actually call those things to light because I think that is so important these days because so many people just, you know, that was one of the things that I thought about with the show. Um, not to digress too much, but that was something that I really thought about this because there is a tendency to, you want to get tactical. You know, there's so many of these shows where they talk about tactics and I think that's so great. I love them, I listen to them myself. But I really want to get into your story and what you're doing, which we are about to segue and you know, and I just really appreciate the ability to talk about those things in those weight and that kind of a way and have that kind of a vision as you're working on projects, you know, looking forward and not just the next project.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:27:07 You know, cause it, like you said, people originally everybody wanted to be a director because nobody knew everything else was. And so everybody's a director and then you start to figure out your way. And similarly a lot of people in the industry, it's just the next project, what's the next Gig? And it can, it's the same thing with content. It's whether it's in Hollywood or it's, you know, in social media and it's now becoming intertwined almost. I mean it feels like it's hard to tell now. I mean, you've got trailers and commercials that are actually trailers or trailers. They look like trailers, but they're actually commercials. And so I was just watching some from last year and chuckling. They did a like, I don't know if you saw that, the Crocodile Dundee one from last year with um, Danny Mcbride.

Maggie Hart: 00:27:59 Oh, you're hearing about this?

Gabe Ratliff: 00:28:01 Yeah, it was like Chris Hemsworth and Danny Mcbride and pretending to be doing a sequel of Crocodile Dundee and about, you know, I think it was a 62nd spot in about 30 seconds of it totally looks like a legitimate trailer. And then the last 30 seconds of it are you start to, and then they make fun of, they're actually calling itself out that it's actually a commercial, not a trailer for Australia and you're just like, what is going on? It was, I mean it was clever, but I just was like, wow, this is really starting to get pretty Metta and now trailers or commercials and everything is really just content to keep people's attention and not, you know, it used to be so story driven and I think now it's really just become, how to keep people's attention.

Maggie Hart: 00:28:51 Well, there's so much, I mean, when you think about [inaudible] and bloggers and like that whole world of just having to post something every day, almost like that is not going to be good content is not going to be story driven is that can be, you know, like you said, like, you know, we used to tell stories and oh, we're creating content. And I that's like when I moved to La, that was one of the things that it could go like, how do I make it in the end of the street? And it was like, just create as much content as you can. And, and it was like the idea of like the more noise that you make people start noticing you and that I just, you know, I think that there's a strategy to that, that that is helpful. You know, you see a lot of awesome filmmakers like Joe Swanberg or the Duplass brothers who made really amazing film and they didn't stop until people notice them and like good on them, you know?

Maggie Hart: 00:29:54 Um, but then you've got all of these people these days who are just, you know, co creating content that isn't as well crafted and isn't as good as storytelling. And I think the problem too is then it becomes you're not creating content or you're not making things because you have a passion for what you're doing or the story that you're telling, but because you want to get noticed. And I think that's, that's tough because I want to say that everything that I've made has come, would've come from like a place of passion and like wanting to tell that story as opposed to, Oh, this is the thing that I made so I could get a job at, you know, like you said, it's just the next job and it's like, I'm going to do this and I can get another job after that and I can get another job after that. And, and all of a sudden you're just making things so you can be employed.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:30:53 Yeah, no, absolutely. That was why I kind of took a second to make that comment because I, again, I feel like it's, it's such a, you know, and you, you can

Gabe Ratliff: 00:31:07 okay,

Gabe Ratliff: 00:31:08 look at it this way or not, but I just feel like it's

Gabe Ratliff: 00:31:11 okay.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:31:11 It's brave to take that stand I think in today's time because of that, because it's theirs. It's like the, it's kind of the modern day peer pressure.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:31:21 Okay.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:31:21 So I want to come back now to you and your stories and I'd love to talk about, I'd love it if you could talk about impressions and that story because that story is amazing and it's a nine year story.

Maggie Hart: 00:31:46 I was first or second year of film school, I hadn't been writing all these comedies and then I had decided to write a romantic comedy and it was just like a short, like 20 minutes long and we shot it over Christmas break because that's a the hilarious too. It's like if you're not in some sort of, and just go make a film outside of school. Yeah. We just put our equipment together and shot it in three days. And I premiered it that Spring and it was called personal passion and it got really good. Like I got really good feedback from it. Everybody loved it. And a lot of people were like, you know, that can be a future. Like that was a great idea, could be a feature. And I was like, oh, interesting. I guess, I guess it could be. And over the course of the next few months, um, I was talking with, uh, the guys who were in the film and kind of brainstorming.

Maggie Hart: 00:32:44 And to make a long story short, we came up with this crazy plan that I wasn't going to take a plot of first impressions and turn that into a feature, but we were going to build on that to create a feature film. So this is the plan that it would be like five short films strung together and we would shoot it and we would shoot one every like six months or so. So the plot of the film is that it starts off at a wedding. There's three guys and three girls. When you don't know which one's the bride and which one's the room. And so it flashes back like five times to these five key points in all of their lives. And you kind of get to see who's who's dating who and who's going to end up together. And so that's what, um, about a year after we shot the first one, we shot the second one and then six months after that we shot the third one and ended up taking us about four, three, four years to, to shoot the whole thing.

Maggie Hart: 00:33:51 And then that time, like two of our actors and moved to La. And so I'd have to like fly them back. And I'm also in film school at this time. And then while I was in film school, I also got a fulltime job as like an editor and then like a post supervisor. So like I am crazy busy, like doing all of this other stuff. And then just like making a feature on the side. And, uh, so yeah, we shot, um, let's see, we started in 2009 and we wrapped in 2013 and then we premiered on June 27, 2014. And everybody loved it. It was great. So there was a wonderful time to have to have spent at that time, five years working on the film and to have it actually like there was a point where I was like, I don't know if this things even like it was like maybe we'll be able to finish it. Like I had carefully written it so that each one was also a, uh, its own short films. So even if we only get that done with three of them and then like weren't able to continue than that, I would still have at least like three short films. I could go to festivals or something like that. Just like constantly worried one of my actors is going to die,

Maggie Hart: 00:35:09 you know, you know, which is like one of it was so funny cause like my cousin is one of the stars and the films and they're all like, and like all my best friends are in it. And also my boyfriend at the time was, was in the film. So but not like, you know, so there's all these people that I love but I don't want to cause I really want to finish it.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:35:38 Well, and of course, you had the foresight...did you hear that too? To look ahead and, and be planning for a fail safe by having them be short films in case anything did happen. I love that. That, you know, you had that, that vision ahead to be thinking through how to handle because of this, having this unique development and production periods, you know, and going months at a time and then getting the next, you know, having a year ago by and then having six months go by and being able to plan for that no matter what and not being locked into, oh this is a full feature, but we didn't get the last 30 minutes or however much you needed. You know, the last scenes that you needed. And you're like, well, okay, that's back in the can. And sitting there.

Maggie Hart: 00:36:32 Well, and also because they were a century also structured in class that we didn't have to worry about continuity at all, which is so nice. There's just anytime, like whenever we, we pick up the camera to film again, like whenever our actors was like, what am I, one of my actresses like constantly with dying her hair. She had a different hair color. Yeah. In every, in every piece of the film. Um, I mean that's fine because it actually helps because we kind of showed this passage of time because essentially if you, the chronology, like in the movie, the movie takes place over about three years. It's just worked out really well. So yeah, we got to visit and that was probably one of the best days of my life, being able to show it and having it be done. And then we submitted it to film festivals, um, and it didn't get into a single film festival. Wow. Um, yeah, like not a one. Wow. I don't think I knew that, which I think hindsight, I was submitting just like some of the bigger tier festivals and then I would miss some of the lower tier ones. I could have been a lot more strategic about the festival game. That was really, that was really tough from a, like

Maggie Hart: 00:37:54 just from, from any standpoint really of of having worked so hard on this film. And then now I'm like, no, I was like, where is it going to go? Like, you know, what, what am I gonna do with it? Because there was no really, there's no real potential for distribution or like, you know, really at the time, cause this was, we spent a year kind of submitting the festival so that would be like 2016 there was really no, like it's basically just like upload it to youtube. That's kind of as an option. So I just didn't really do anything with it for, for awhile. That was like, I don't, you know, going through like the waves of like, that's five years on this movie and now what do I do with it? You know? But, but ultimately at the same time, like the experience of making it and just having a completed feature film was like the real win of it. Like I never really, I was never really thinking this is the thing that's going to make me rich or famous or anything like that. It was just like we all really wanted to make a feature film and we did. And so yeah, I just kind of sat on it for awhile. And um, in that time, uh, I moved to La and when I got to La, my roommate two weeks after I moved in with like, I want to make a feature film too. And so I spent my first hormones as an la producing another feature, uh, with my roommate that was sometime in 2016 when Amazon did their video direct. Like now you can upload a feature film to Amazon. How is like awesome. Like now I can just read it myself and it's perfect. But I had just finished producing a feature. I was also writing and directing web series and I've just had like a lot going on in the last however long now. I finally

Maggie Hart: 00:40:04 cracked open the hard drive and made like a couple of updates to it and it's going to be on Amazon very soon. So actually by the time this is out it is on Amazon.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:40:16 Yes, yes. I'm so excited. Yes.

Maggie Hart: 00:40:22 Hey, I just say go watch Impressions on Amazon now. That's crazy to say.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:40:29 Yes

Maggie Hart: 00:40:30 After nine years.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:40:31 Say it again.

Maggie Hart: 00:40:32 The, I just tell the world you can go watch Impressions on Amazon.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:40:37 Yay.

Maggie Hart: 00:40:38 Delightful romantic comedy. It, it'll make you believe in love again.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:40:43 Yes.

Maggie Hart: 00:40:45 That's what I told my producer. I said, I'm writing romantic comedy and he goes, oh well make me believe in love again,

Gabe Ratliff: 00:40:53 Tagline done.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:40:56 So I imagine now after all these years that in a way, you know, you're saying goodbye to this project and finally kind of being finished with it. How does that feel? What does that like?

Maggie Hart: 00:41:11 It's definitely a huge relief because especially since the last few years, it's basically just been an enormous item on my to do list of just, I gotta finish it. I got to get it out there. But it's actually when I started, when I went back to, I had to like swap out a couple of songs that I didn't have the right, uh, distributing too and a few other things like that. And so I went, went back in to, to work on it. I, it was like, hello old friends. It was like this nostalgia like, um,

Gabe Ratliff: 00:41:44 okay.

Maggie Hart: 00:41:44 I just, it was actually really sad to me that, you know, it's now completely done and completely over like close that chapter for good. And which is good because I didn't want it hanging over my head and Walker. Right. But it is, um, it is kind of sad because it was very, very special project to work on and like all the, I feel a great camaraderie with all the people that worked on it. And yeah, I feel more like I would want to have, you know, a lot of people want to have like college reunions and stuff like that. I want to have like an impressions reunion. Yeah. For all of us who spend five years working on a movie together.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:42:34 Yeah. I could totally see that at Alamo.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:42:37 Yeah.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:42:38 Yeah. It has to be, oh, it's party. So I, I gonna transition to, um, romantic method in a moment, but I'm curious about, you know, after now having this really long process to a project like that that, you know, has, has had this kind of story that it's had, which I mean, Kudos because

Gabe Ratliff: 00:43:07 yeah,

Gabe Ratliff: 00:43:07 as we were talking about earlier, this kind of, that whole conversation we had earlier really sets up the point around this that I think it's so easy to get caught up in the now and the,

Gabe Ratliff: 00:43:18 okay.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:43:19 The, what you're working on next and you know, it's so easy to let projects fall to the wayside. It, it can be to not have that perseverance to keep going with something like that when you know, things weren't in a great state as far as distribution back in that time that after actually what worked out is by holding onto it for a little bit. You now have this opportunity with distribution over the last few years and I just commend you on continuing the project and just keeping it going and having it come to fruition and be completed because that is so hard to do for some people and it's so easy in today's time to, like I said, you know, let that just fall to the wayside and be like, well I'm going to work on the next one. You know, I'm going to get to the next one or I need to work on, you know, I need to focus on, you know, what I'm doing for work as opposed to passion projects, you know, and so the passion project could just stay on a hard drive, live in a drawer or a closet or a box who knows where and just sit there and still have maybe been been, you know, debuted or premiered, you know, when you first debuted it.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:44:32 But then it could, that could have been it and only a certain number of people could have seen it where as now it actually can be viewed all over the world. And so I really commend you on that. I want to ask you, how did that project changed the way you work on projects since then?

Gabe Ratliff: 00:44:55 Yeah,

Maggie Hart: 00:44:56 I think, I honestly, I think I learned everything from working on impression. I mean, are you talking like specifically like the film making aspect of it or more like the,

Gabe Ratliff: 00:45:13 well, I,

Maggie Hart: 00:45:14 uh,

Gabe Ratliff: 00:45:15 I imagine there were so many learning lessons within film making that, um, that is the question for sure. But also just in general how you work on projects since that one, you know, and how you've took working on that one and have applied that to projects since the cause. It's always, you know, every project has these really great learning lessons to feed into the next one and to make the next one, you know, either better or different or more refined or whatever it is that's going to happen with it. You know, as you continue to master your craft, that's just going to continue to be the evolution of you as as uh, an artist. I'm just curious like how, how did that affect the way you work on projects since working on that one? But then also the interesting thing around that story is that that one was carried over a long period of time. So I'm curious how, you know, like you said, going back into the drive and having to swap out music and going back to that old friend, looking with this new lens of the current Maggie who's grown so much since it originally started. I'm just curious if there's any little nuggets that came out of it then you could speak to.

Maggie Hart: 00:46:29 Yeah, I mean I think there's, there's a lot of lessons that I learned. The person that I realized how hard it is to make a feature film and the importance of defining success for every project that you make when thinking about, you know, why are you making this? Um, and, and that goes back to a lot of what I was saying earlier about like we just wanted to make a feature film. It wasn't going to be the thing that is going to make us like, which are famous, but it was still, you know, disappointing that it wasn't picked up at a festival wizard didn't become like, you know, anybody who makes an indie film wants it to become like a runaway indie hits. But you know what I mean? I really learned through that experience to consider every, with every project. Like why are you making it and what does success look like for it?

Maggie Hart: 00:47:25 Like for after impressions, I did the web series, the romantic method and, and because of what I had learned on impressions for romantic methods, I was going to be more of like a, an an example of my writing. So when I made romantic method that I, I had no interest whatsoever in making a hit web series, I just wanted to be able to send people, you know, when I moved to la, everybody was like, are you a writer or where can I see what you've written? And so I wanted to have something really quick that they could just see as an example of work. And I think people can have 1,000,003 rules as to why they, why they made something. But it's just such a, it's such a process and it takes so much of your time and your life and your soul

Gabe Ratliff: 00:48:12 that

Maggie Hart: 00:48:13 you know, to, to really stop at the beginning of a project and say, okay, how will I know if succeeded in this? Is it because, you know, am I getting like external validation from that or, or am I like going to be fulfilled by the process of making this thing? And that was uh, that was a huge lesson for me to learn. It has made my, all my projects since then inherently fulfilling because of, because it's the process of making it that is interesting to me.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:48:52 That's great that you look at projects in that way, understanding them at their core, that they're, you're answering what success is, you know, in, in, in continuing to, to approach that as you work on these different projects. Whether it is a feature or a web series, whether it's a route, the writing or just making a feature because you want to and you know, but, and everything in between, you know, and, and being able to say that, cause that's one of the things I find interesting about projects is that, you know, a lot of us are perfectionists and have, you know, that dilemma inside as we are working on things and it's, you know, you want it to be this high level product and it can get away from you and you can start to lose. You can start to lose your way when you get to just get lost in that.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:49:48 I want it to be better, I want it to be better. I want it to be like this. It has to be like this and that. That's part of what I was talking about earlier about how you can let projects go. I've even done that where I've let projects go cause I'm like, I'm just not hitting what I want to hit with this. It's not hitting the mark. It's not good enough. Meanwhile it didn't get done. And, you know, I've learned from that myself. And that's what I think is so amazing about specifically impressions, is that you went for it. You, you, you, you navigated the waters of this very unique storytelling method to this feature in a way that feels very strategic, right? And you, but you were also solving for things to allow for it to be, but all in, you still did it. You didn't let it fall to the wayside and be like, it's not happening. We're not getting it. You know, it's taking too long. Maybe people are changing their hair, you know, and all these things. But you said, no, that's actually great. It's showing passage of time, you know, and like following the things that could be challenges in saying, no, it's actually better storytelling, you know? And then being able to address it in that way and, and, and to also just complete it. And so I, I just think that's, that's awesome.

Maggie Hart: 00:51:05 Oh yeah. I mean, I use it like I am a huge perfectionist.

Maggie Hart: 00:51:11 Um, and it's interesting when you, you know, when I opened up the hard drive and look at the film, I am noticing like I was making it today, I would do almost everything differently. There's things that I technical thing is that I don't like about it and then there's entire scenes that I'm like, why did I, I wouldn't have written it that way. Like there's all kinds of things. So I think that's another like lesson to be learned. I think what we are just constantly evolving and constantly becoming better at our craft and becoming hopefully becoming better people. Um, as we, as we get older, hopefully, you know, my, my tendency I any for awhile too cause I debated whether or not to actually like release it because there were things I didn't like about it. And again, being very conscious of like what I'm putting out into the world, like that sort of thing. But allowing ourselves to change over time means that the first feature that you may not going to be as good as the second or the third or know whatever. So

Gabe Ratliff: 00:52:18 Spider Gwen

Maggie Hart: 00:52:19 and so, and there's a lot about it. No. So you know, you go through those cycles, there were, there was like a hate this movie. This is the worst movie yet, but I think I've landed in sort of a fun little chorus.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:52:37 So what would you say your favorite piece of work so far that you've written or directed, what would you say that is that do you just at least currently that you feel like really, you know, hit that success that you were looking for? I mean, is it, is there one that stands out?

Maggie Hart: 00:52:56 I mean, honestly, of all the things that I've written and directed so far, I'd probably say impression actually. Yeah, that's hilarious. It just said that the first one is this, the second and the third. But I, I see, I think part of it is just the, uh, the story of making it by it. It feels so weird to say like, I'm, I'm proud of the writing in that movie. Or like I'm proud of like the, the way that it came together. I feel like it's still makers were required to hate everything that we do.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:53:35 Right, right. Which again feeds into the next project. Right. Like I'm going to do better. Right. And then you look back. Yeah. Wait, no, that was actually good. Like you said, like you have grown fond of it. I was actually wondering that when I asked you the question, I was like, well, she just said that she's grown fond of it and so it made me wonder, you know, it just seems like it has, like you called it, you know, this old friend and I feel like it, it really became this persona of its own and I can, I can totally see that. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Gutha. Laura, are you an artist, creator, entrepreneur that creates with purpose and wants to make the world a better place? If so, Cathedra is your media company. We tell the world about your brand through storytelling rather than sales pitches like most other companies get through or has committed to getting to the heart of your brand and its mission. So you don't just have fans but super fans that will support you for years to come. Let us tell your story today. Learn more at [inaudible] dot com

Gabe Ratliff: 00:54:45 I want to jump back to your time in La and I'm curious about, actually a couple things I'm curious about, cause I'm, I'm a member, I'm one of the members of um, that founded the Colorado up the United for Progress Movement that started here is it was like the response to me too and, and the time's up movement. And one of the things that I'm so happy to see occurring in Hollywood is not just the celebrity response to get people's interest in these movements, but how there's actually a change occurring because of these movements. It's actually gone outside of the celebrity world and is now, I mean it's in music, it's in film, it's in TV, it's in those realms. But it's completely gone outside of that and is now to the everyday man and woman and specifically women. Um, I am curious what it's been like in that kind of post me to Hollywood as a writer and director of wow. What did you see in that period and where do you see this going in the future?

Maggie Hart: 00:55:59 Yeah, I was in la when the Harvey Weinstein, me too lumen started. I mean obviously like you said, it's just been such a radical shift and so, so thankful for it. And it's interesting when it was happening, I remember I would like be in the airport or I'd like be played. Like I would have random people up to me. We're like, yeah, it was like on an airplane and there was a guy and I was like, oh I'm, I'm a, I'm a writer. And he's like, oh, like how has it been since the whole me too thing has happened. It was like, is this the thing that everybody asks me about? Wow. And I remember when it happened, it was just such a given in the industry that you know you are going to be harassed or like people, you know you might have to like sleep your way up or anything like that.

Maggie Hart: 00:56:54 That it was just, I remember being like yeah like why hasn't this happened before and it's been extremely empowering and it's awesome too cause I've, I've gotten a couple of writing jobs I hired by men and there would be something like kind of sexist or Cetera in the script and for me that not just say like I'm not comfortable with this but like I have in, in giving them those and saying this isn't going to go well opposed me to Hollywood, your film is not going to do as well but just to have to be able to back that with like an entire movement to get her credibility has been really awesome. Yeah. There is though there is on the flip side of that. Well also I think another good thing is that I, I've gotten a lot of consulting jobs or like script reading jobs by men who were now very concerned about the content of their script or guys who are bringing me in to be like a co writer and give it like a, a female voice

Gabe Ratliff: 00:58:03 mmm.

Maggie Hart: 00:58:04 Or work after that, which is great. And most of them like, you know, the, the, I appreciated that they were at least aware enough to know that they didn't have a full grasp on like female representation in their own writing and the things you bring somebody in and, and I was happy to be that person. So that was really cool. I did have a couple jobs. I had one job that was probably the worst job I've ever had and it was, I, I thought I was being brought in. It was like this, uh, it was like romantic comedy and I thought I was being brought into to give it that like female voice. And I was like, okay, there's a lot. Like, I have a lot of ideas and how to improve this. And they're like, yeah, just like to whatever. So I took a lot of the really problematic things and updated it and like fix it. And I was like, okay, this is, you know, and I basically gave them the draft. I said, here's the good delivered. Um, and basically I was told that they didn't want any of my ideas. They didn't want any of my thoughts or please, or even like things that I was offended by. And there were a couple of jobs where it was basically they just wanted my name because it was a woman's name. And so they wanted to be able to say that there was a female writer

Gabe Ratliff: 00:59:39 just to use them.

Maggie Hart: 00:59:41 Yeah.

Gabe Ratliff: 00:59:42 Wow. No, that's the new play. Wow.

Maggie Hart: 00:59:47 Isn't that crazy?

Gabe Ratliff: 00:59:49 It's just, it's just par for the course is what it is. Of course. How do we solve this problem? Just put it on the grids. Yeah. We'll let her take the time to fill it. You know, to write this script and fill the, fill the void and then we won't use it. Yeah, that's a great idea man. Give that guy a raise. No, sorry. Bye. You know, I want to ask

Maggie Hart: 01:00:20 or I mean on the other events too, like if, if, if they didn't want my ideas, I don't know why they hired me.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:00:28 That's what, that's what I mean it's like such a waste of time. Yeah. You know, it's like just there's somebody name up then just make up, that's what they do. And script writing makeup names. So make up a name and throw it down there and just, and then people are like, who is this Keyser Soze you know? Or it's obviously a female name, but like, you know, just some random figment of someone's imagination. I I wanted to ask, I had a couple of questions. One was there a,

Gabe Ratliff: 01:00:59 I don't, I knew it wasn't a clean transition, but like what was it like in the pre me to relative to now what it's like in the post. Me Too. Because you also have that reference and I'm just curious like how, how do you see, how did you see that change occur besides what we're now seeing? Like, what was it like before that started to happen? Like how were you treated? Cause I'm, I'm actually curious like what was it like for you before that? Did you, did you really feel this? I mean there's like a been a major change so I'm just curious what that juxtaposition is between what we now know as the postman to Hollywood and the, and the pre because we weren't really talking about it like we are now and I'm just curious your personal perspective on what it was like pre

Maggie Hart: 01:01:52 yeah, I, I wasn't at least like leading up to it. Like I wasn't really in, in the industry like in la or anything like that. Um, but yeah,

Gabe Ratliff: 01:02:04 what I mean just in general in the industry period, like even whether you were there or not, I just meant like, what was it like for you being a woman writer and director your whole life and that being the way that was the status until, you know, this last couple of years of what, what, can you speak to that difference that you see from how you were, like, do you have any reference that you can share around what it was like previous?

Maggie Hart: 01:02:34 I mean, I think first like it's just really empowering and like a, a cultural mindset of, of women in the industry of just like being, uh, being a female writer director because, you know, I think I was one of like five girls in my film school. Uh, you know, there was, I would be on set with, with all men and it was just this boy's club mentality. And I remember my, my first internship with like, with this company where the, the guy who was like running company with like taking me to film event and it was very, it was very strange. Basically, I wasn't his intern. Like he was just like, you got to watch this movie. You're like, you got to know I need to take you to this some event. And we basically just like trying to date me and you and I was like, oh, he goes like 18 years old.

Maggie Hart: 01:03:35 Um, and I just, but it was, but it was that, it's that same mentality that you hear people talking about over, he's like, this is my first internship is my first opportunity. This guy's really weird. But I also like want to learn how to make movies. Right. And so what I see now is, is really encouraging because there's more awareness to like that going on and that like not being appropriately, you know, cause especially, especially young women who are having their first internships and just say, oh, I get that. I suppose this is how it is. And when you start going into an industry that way, you're just like condition two, you know, you're conditioned to it and you're numb to it

Gabe Ratliff: 01:04:26 basically. Yeah.

Maggie Hart: 01:04:28 Yes. I know. This is just how it is, you know? And I'm, I'm very thankful for the people who finally just put their, put their foot down and said, this can't be how it is.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:04:43 Yeah. Well, and that's why I was asking just because you know, you've been around it for so long and if it sounds to me like you've been very fortunate as far as the crew that you've been able to work with over the years, obviously you're, no, the impressions crew.

Maggie Hart: 01:05:00 There were other crews that I worked with where I felt very, you know, like I said, it was just like a boys club and there were, there were things that were said on set that offended me, but I wasn't. But then, you know, if you know, it's like, oh boys, could you please not talk about are, you know, is this like, and then you're just going to get made fun of. Basically. It's like, you know, that's offensive to me.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:05:23 Yeah. It's so interesting to me to hear the stories that are now coming out. That's why I wanted to ask and and just kind of get, if there's any stories like that that you shared because you know, I really appreciate that being spoken to now that it's a conversation that people have been having and it's now something that's not, you know, creating, it's not as much of a stigma for people to comment about what it's like because now it's made this, this, this movement has happened and it's made the impact that it has. And I've heard many stories that were just horrific and honestly mind blowing just that regardless of what type of industry you're in, that that was how just a human is treated. I did want to just see like what that was like. So I appreciate you sharing that because I feel like more the more people hear these and understand even the little subtleties, even if the, it was not extremely offensive, it was still just this community or this culture in the industry that was, it was so ingrained in people to be this way and like the dirty jokes and the all the things that you hear about around set because it was like this boy's club dude fest and they knew that they had the monopoly on it for the most part so that they could just run it how they wanted to and they didn't have to be accountable for those remarks or the way that they were treating people.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:07:06 And you know it's, I was just curious because you've, you've been devout to this craft your whole life and are in this position that, you know, a director is the leader. And so that was why I was kind of, I was curious about how you were treated in those instances because that's something I, I'm, I'm always interested in hearing those stories around where you're in this leadership role, but as a woman that is now less and less challenged, you know, and it's in this place of like, no, you deserve to be where you are. Which leads me to the next comment I wanted to make about it is that one thing I've been hearing a lot about lately that I'm really interested to see where this goes is the, what you were talking about the voice of women that is so different than a man's voice and so many stories over the decades have been written by men in the woman voice, but it's not. And I'm really interested to see because I'm hearing more and more about this, can you speak to at all or is there, is there anything that you kind of want to shed a light on to that because I, I really am excited about that topic coming up and that, that the difference that there is between the voices and how that that can change moving forward in storytelling.

Maggie Hart: 01:08:35 Yeah, I mean first I'd get great cause it's going to open up a lot of opportunities for women writers and creators and you're totally right. It's like the boys between a man riding a woman and a woman riding a woman is night and day. I remember I was watching wonder woman and you know, he's talking about Patty Jenkins and however it goes, but that was still written by a man.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:08:59 I know. Hold on.

Maggie Hart: 01:09:03 Um, but, um, I would think about when you talk about, you know, female creators, um, I was thinking about Jessica Jones. Oh yeah. Which has basically, no, all female, a female show runner, mostly female writers. The second season they only had female directors, which is awesome. But the first season especially, there's just something about it, there's a tone to it. Um, and just like, uh, not just in the writing itself, but sort of in, in like, I don't know if the atmosphere of the show that is so specifically from a female vantage point, it's like this x factor that you get when you have women writing women, especially the person that I've loved and Jesse Young cause like, yeah, this is, I feel like I, I'm really feeling understood. Uh, it was like very validating. I was like, yes, this is what it's like to be a woman.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:10:04 Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I really appreciated the way that they handled the villain. And like how he interacted with her. You could feel this different method to the dialogue and to their interaction that was not from this masculine place. It was much more cerebral and much more primal and visceral in this, but still had this delicate tone to it. There was like this beautiful kind of porcelain quality to the way that they had them interact and the relationship that they had that I thought, I've just got to this different level as a viewer that you don't feel it didn't have the like gold member are not gold member but I gold finger or you know, these like villain or, or even, you know, the, the thin os and all these people, right. That there's these like masculine type ominous villains. Yeah. He, he this, I really appreciated the way that they had them interacting in like how she was kind of unraveling in this way that did not feel like a masculine voice, you know, and that she had this edge to her that was like I said, it had, there was like this beautiful like kind of porcelain quality where it was like this like strength but fragility to her and the way that they interacted as like a protagonist and an antagonist and the relationship between her and her friend and the relationship between her and, and men.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:11:49 And it felt real like it felt like legit legitimate a woman in today's time going through this. You know what? And I loved how they sort of referenced what she had been through before trying to be this like super hero and all of the metaphors are along with that that were so great and allowed her to be kind of this like mess and not clean and pretty, but have the, again that, that sort of porcelain ability or quality to her where she's like broken but not, and it just, I don't know. I love how they played with that. I agree with you. I thought that was amazing. I really appreciated what they did with that story.

Maggie Hart: 01:12:30 It's really important to have female writers and, and telling women's stories too. I think they, the number of female protagonists have gone up in the last few years, but it's still strikingly disproportionate.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:12:48 [inaudible] yeah, my niece is 13 and one of the things that all of us in the close family have pushed his female protagonists in her, um, consumption of media and whether it's singers, songwriters with films, with a superheroes, with books. She loves female protagonists. She's, she's a big reader and it is so great to see as she's becoming a woman that she's in this particular generation that's participating in this shift and seeing the Patty Jenkins and you know, the, the lady Gaga was and all of these people in all different types of mediums that are excelling at their craft and being recognized for it. And you know, even on the, I mean, I, I also want to say even on the coattails of the women that have been doing it for decades and are now finally getting some kind of validation like the Meryl Streep's and you know, all these women that, that Nicole Kidman's, all these women that have been there doing this forever and dealing with this pre me to Hollywood and her finally starting to see some traction in, you know, Jennifer Lawrence. I love how hardcore she is about a gender parity in and uh, and pay quality and all of those things that, you know, and the, the, the, you've got these, she's also playing these roles like Katniss who, whether it's her in real life or her as a character, she's leading this charge for this kind of new way to look at female protagonists, uh, and, and female actors in, in this celebrity status that they have. And I had just, I really appreciate that.

Maggie Hart: 01:14:49 Yeah, definitely. I'm so excited about, like you said, that you're, you know, young girls growing up now we'll have hopefully have a much easier time at least being able to find role models. You know, I remember when I was young, my favorite superhero as low as lane because there weren't any other, right, yeah. There weren't any women to look up to. So that's really encouraging.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:15:19 MMM.

Maggie Hart: 01:15:20 I would have to say, I mean there's still quite a long way, you know, when you look at representation then, you know, explanation over sexualization. Like there's some, there's, there's a lot of really good things happening with like female protagonists that were still just like from barn it all the time with these stunk. I think it made it a lot of advertising and a lot of, you know, commercials and media of just telling girls that their value is in the way that they look and you know, the way that they, yeah. This is the way that they live. And I would like to see a lot more like female protagonist, you know, and really good stories about them. And I know a lot less telling young girls that they need to buy this beauty product or by that beauty products to her. Yeah. Et cetera. Um, cause I think that's, that's the worries me about young girls growing up these days.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:16:25 Yeah. Well I wonder, you know, I talked about how I felt about Jessica Jones,

Gabe Ratliff: 01:16:36 but I'm, I'm interested to hear how you saw, cause you, cause you brought it up. So I'm curious about how you saw that, cause that's a great example of putting women in the lead and telling a story about a woman protagonist, strong woman protagonist. How do you feel, how, can you explain how that differs in your own words and like how that's helping us move forward in this movement of going towards gender parity and women having these roles not being about how they look, but more about who they are and how, can you speak to that?

Maggie Hart: 01:17:17 Yeah, I think, um, you know, my, my favorite, uh, some of my favorite female characters who are, uh, from Aaron Sorkin shows like the newsroom, um, because they're so intelligent. Um, like any, uh, all the worry, the names, the Mckenzie, we Kale and, and, uh, Olivia Mom's character from the newsroom. Yup. Or just seeing very strong, extremely intelligent women who are like getting things done. And I think those types of roles are, I think even more important than like female superheroes. Right. If nothing else. I love superheroes. I think, I think women these days need to see more of like women in the norm.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:18:04 MMM.

Maggie Hart: 01:18:05 And not just like kick ass ladies superheroes, but like, here's, you know, uh, you know, the female Supreme Court justice, like I'm on a basis, uh, the movie, the movie about RDBMS.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:18:22 Yeah. Yep.

Maggie Hart: 01:18:24 Um, so those types of songs I think are hugely important and we just live in this culture where people don't know what to do with the pictures of women that aren't over sexualized. Like studios are going to freak out. She's not sexy enough that, that men aren't going to go see the movies. And that's very, that's tragic that she can't just see a woman in her own right. But that there has to be some sort of sex appeal for any woman you see on screen. And it's extremely, that's detrimental to the identities of young women and, and the idea he's a young man to, to it. They're just constantly bombarded by, you know, this idea that women are sexy objects, they're going to get the wrong idea. And then girls watching it. Old War. And Yeah. I think if I, if I wanted to write just as, as we're sitting here talking about this, if I was going to write something with like a female protagonist, like look for the sake of, of have, have some of thing that your 13 year old needs to watch, I'd probably write a movie that had something to do with, you know, some true story about a woman in politics or something like that.

Maggie Hart: 01:20:01 Or like the idea like a female president or something. Just cause I think I was watching, there's a great documentary called misrepresentation.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:20:12 I um, I have not seen it. I'm familiar with it though. Yeah.

Maggie Hart: 01:20:16 Yeah. Um, it's a, I mean it says a lot of like what, what we're talking about. And,

Maggie Hart: 01:20:23 and a lot of stuff everybody already knows, which is also sad because there should be no more than about it. Um, you're saying so many men, um, politics and there's just not a lot of, I, you know, women, I mean this last election only is great for that. Yes. Uh, I would just love to fill the idea younger women with like, here's an, here's an example of what you could do. Like give them a vision core. Okay. Ways they could succeed, you know? Yeah. Like I think that's like stories and movies are so powerful because they, you know, they can plant ideas in people's heads. Exactly. And so if you see and that can be detrimental and I can also be really great depending on what you make. Yeah.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:21:19 Agreed. One of the things I also wanted to ask you about, I feel like this might be a good segway for this too, but you know, I also know that you're quite religious as well and I'm wondering how that also plays a role in what you put out into the world and how that's accepted. If it does, do you write that into your pieces or do you keep that separate or you know, how do you kind of handle or are, how, how do you handle that with your stories and then also has that, has that affected, you know, getting work or anything like that being a woman, but then also having these beliefs that, you know, you may not want to take a job or maybe it's something that you don't believe in and participating in the story about or even working on that or is there, is there anything like that that you can speak to around that and how that plays a part in your craft?

Gabe Ratliff: 01:22:24 Okay.

Maggie Hart: 01:22:25 Yeah, I mean I think for

Maggie Hart: 01:22:31 what's interesting is that I, I've never not gotten gum specifically based on my beliefs. I think it's a whole other matter to say that there's a lot of jobs that I haven't taken. Um, and I think it's the same two I'm just very sensitive to, you know, again, I'm obviously very conscious about what I'm putting out into the world. And that's a lot of times it's because of my faith, a lot of, because of, you know, what I believe about gender equality and female representation, like all that, I feel like it all goes together. So yeah, I, I did actually get, when I, when I first moved to La, I got hired by a couple production companies that were specifically wanting to make, it was, it didn't mean a thing. They wanted to make faith based like romantic comedies.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:23:34 Yeah, that was actually where I was going with the question. I was curious about that. Yeah.

Maggie Hart: 01:23:38 Which I'm not a huge fan of like, uh, uh, the idea of like faith based film or like that is you're on camera. Um, I don't, I don't go for those movies. Um, I'm, I'm under the, uh, under the notion that like, I'm, I'm such a huge, like story's structure, like hero's journey films as Mifid, like all that stuff that like the idea of a movie that's just kind of preaches to you for two hours, like, is not what I want to do. So when I, uh, when I met with these people, they said we want to make a romantic comedy and it just happens to have the characters are just, you know, people and, and it was interesting cause then it's like, okay, how do I write like, you know, how people say the effect, the way that they choose a partner in life, you know, and what are the added variables that go along with that? So to me, to us, like we were writing romantic comedy and then it just, you know, he had these characters and it was actually like, I loved it because I don't, you know, when you talk about representation, you know, obviously female representation is just like a big thing. But also like, you know, Chris Representation, I think it was very almost nonexistent. I, I've never seen actually I've seen one Christian character on a, on a film that I've actually thought was a real person.

Maggie Hart: 01:25:16 And not like a caricature of a person. And of course it was Harriet Hayes from Aaron Sorkin, Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip. I just love, I love Aaron Sorkin. So what was interesting about that particular project though was when trying to get funding for it going to go like more than like faith based distributors and then saying, this is an uh, uh, uh, faith based film. I'm like, no, it's a romantic comedy. And they're like, well, we can't produce it. And so then going to other studios and I'm saying, Hey, here's the romance comedy, you know, like, well this seems like a faith based film. We can't, and it just, it, it's like this weird hybrid of just like wanting to represent, you know, people who share my beliefs in the normal way. Right. And people don't really know what to do with that for some reason, which is very strange.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:26:23 That's fascinating. That's a great story. That's a really great story. Wow.

Maggie Hart: 01:26:29 Well you asked specifically about like, is it, does it effect, you know, what I make or anything like that? And I mean, for me it affects everything that I do know. Um, like from what I make to like how I live my life to, you know, every and everything in between. You know, it's from that lens of you know, faith that I haven't got and what I want to do and what I want to do is like see like change through the things that I create and what does that look like. And so a lot of the time, like if me, you know, praying about what products I'm going to do and what, you know, what comes out of that basically, you know, when I remember when I made impressions, I was like this is seems like a silly romantic comedy, but I'm going to pray that it goes well. Right. And it works.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:27:30 Yes, I did coming out on Amazon.

Maggie Hart: 01:27:36 Yup. So watch it on Amazon

Gabe Ratliff: 01:27:38 out on Amazon. Yeah. I just, I, I really appreciate the story you shared because that is the totally makes sense right? Into

Gabe Ratliff: 01:27:51 how, how things are right. These like boxes that people live in. You know, if when you, when you talk to like a faith based production house and they're like, well it has to fit this mold and it's like their own version of Hollywood. But then you go to Hollywood and you're like, well, we've got this romantic comedy. And they're like, yeah, but this feels faith based. And you're like, well, okay. And I think that's one of the things I found was interesting about, cause I, I grew up in a religious house as a kid. And that was one of the things that I saw happening in the music end was this shift in

Gabe Ratliff: 01:28:33 not having to fit in that mold where you could sound like a regular band and still have lyrics that were speaking about your faith. And they had this sheen that covered the fact that they were, what they were singing about happened to be something like positive and spiritual and religious. Right. And then it just so happened they were like this amazing rock band that sounded cool or a post punk band or whatever. But I find it interesting that like in the film world, there's still this like, no, we got to fit in this little window and this is, this is all we can do. And similarly, you know, Hollywood doesn't want to tap into that either because then they think, oh, we're probably going to miss out on sales because people are going to find out, oh, this is a faith based romantic comedy. Well that may be true, but it's a romantic comedy. And so that's an interesting story. Yeah, yeah, that's interesting to hear that. Yeah, it's good. I just wanted to, you know, talk to you about that and find out a little bit more of what that's been like for you. Having that be a part of how you interact in the world and write stories and how that's played a part in

Gabe Ratliff: 01:29:48 being a writer, director and you know, being in Hollywood and working on these films and in these shows and what that's been like.

Maggie Hart: 01:29:58 Yeah, I think it's definitely made me feel, like I said, like not just being a woman, but also because of my faith. I think it's made me feel like even more of an outsider in any industry. And you know, to the credit of a lot of people I work with, I've,

Maggie Hart: 01:30:20 you know, I, I've worked with a lot of people who have respected me regardless of my beliefs or my gender that, you know, I'll show up on set and I will do a really good job. And at the end of the day, that's the thing that matters and it's not, you know, people judging me for one thing or another. So I think I've also, I, I've also met like a lot of really wonderful people in the industry who share my faith and I've been able to collaborate that with them a lot on, on a lot of projects. So you just, you know, I feel like you find those like pockets of people that you can work with and you can, uh, collaborate with. So that's been, that's been really helpful as far as that goes. I mean, I think, you know, just just in general, if not like super popular these days to have faith, you know, like I think especially in Hollywood, um, you know, it's interesting living in the Midwest now

Gabe Ratliff: 01:31:32 it's tonight and you know, like, yeah,

Maggie Hart: 01:31:37 so, um, but you know, as far as movies and television go, you know, Christians are kind of like the weird judgemental people, which for me personally, it could not be farther from the truth. And part of like me wanting to write this particular roommate, Tommy, you hopefully, you know, like, like I said, like as far as representation goes, once you show people that, you know, not all Christians are judging you, like not all Christians like, you know, are doing this or that be other thing that like, you know, the, the main staple of my face is love and to love everyone around me. Um, and so I think that has motivated a lot of what I do as far as being on set with people. The way that I run a that is not to just get the work done, but to really love and like speak into the people that I'm working with, like giving people opportunities and that sort of thing. So I also just think it's kept me sane from navigating all the waters of La and the film world in general. It's such a up and down life to live. Yeah. That could be able to,

Maggie Hart: 01:33:00 not all, I like lean back on and trusting God, but also realize that like,

Maggie Hart: 01:33:08 you know my, when we're farming about success, like my wholeness and my [inaudible] doesn't come from the things that I'm creating. Like I don't have to put all of this pressure on my work to validate me. I don't have to put all this pressure on like anything external to validate, do like I can lean back on my faith and trust in God and know that I'm just gonna do my best. That was the thing is that I create and hope that they make it for friends. And you know, I just, I, I meet so many people who put all of their identity and all of there were more into the things that they make. And it's such a, such a roller coaster because you just can't, you can't be a steady, like if you made it something that fails or if you, you know, then you're completely crushed and there's so much, you know, creative, they're wonderfully fragile people.

Maggie Hart: 01:34:10 No. So, yeah, I mean, when I, you know, when I know I can eat, I would go out her TV writing jobs every season, you know, during staffing season, you know, and just, I never, I never got into a writer's room wish. Actually. Thank God for that because I, it turns out I didn't actually want to be a writer because I, I didn't want to be a TV writer. I thought I did, but then I realized that I'm really bad at writing what people tell me to write. Like I want to write what's coming from me. I don't want to write, you know, what, what other people are just telling me to put on the paper. Yeah. I have a similar

Gabe Ratliff: 01:34:58 issue with that. Yeah.

Maggie Hart: 01:35:00 All that to say, you know, if, if all is my doc was in getting those jobs are being successful in industries and um, I would have had an extremely hard times, but you know, yeah. I think my faith keeps me study and also I just have this immense stress when God that like I remember when I didn't get that job, I was like, all right guys, like it must mean that there's something else out there that is going to be better for me. I literally, two weeks later I got contacted by this company that I now work for that the documentaries about human trafficking. Yeah. And it was, it was just so good. Perfect. And it was one of the things where it wasn't even on my radar, but I know it was just like completely or to training together. This is where I'm stuff today.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:35:50 Love it. I love that. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. So thank you for sharing that story. That's great. One of the things that you also mentioned is your passion around teaching. Yeah. And I'm curious, you know, what are your plans around that for the future? Cause I, I, I totally could see that. What do you think about that?

Maggie Hart: 01:36:17 Yeah. Um, I love teaching. I love just like academia in general and such as heard. Um, I like to approach a lot, nothing from like an academic point of view. I have always wanting to teach. I would love to like go to Grad school and there's a great program. It's like you can get a master's in like screen culture, which is like the way that movies and culture like create themselves. Yep. Essentially. Yeah. Yeah. So I would love to teach about that specifically. I think if I, if I could do anything as far as teaching goes, like I would love to get into a room with like first year film students and kind of teach them about all of these things that we've been talking about. You know, it's like, you know, think about what you're creating and why you're doing it and what are you representing in that. I feel like that's a missing course from film school.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:37:19 Yeah, right. It's all technique and the technical side and studying, you know, for existing films and, and cinema in general and you know, making your own, but it's not really getting more philosophical about the purpose of what you're talking about and why. Agreed. Yeah, I didn't have that class. I did not have that Google, I took philosophy, but I did not get that class.

Maggie Hart: 01:37:58 I have taught, um, writing as well. And I love teaching writing, like story structure, [inaudible] Hero's journey. I can teach that every day.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:38:09 Of course. That's awesome. Yeah, I could, yeah, I could totally see that. So we're, we're winding down now. I definitely want to ask you, you know, where can people support you and your work, uh, and, and where can they find impressions and all those things. But I have a couple of quick wrap up questions that I like to do that or just kind of a quicker response and I think these will be fun. Great. Um, I think I know this one, but I'm not sure. What is your favorite movie?

Maggie Hart: 01:38:45 Tree of life. Raw favorite movies.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:38:48 Really.

Maggie Hart: 01:38:49 Okay. Uh Huh.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:38:50 No Way. I totally thought it was Jurassic Park. Yes.

Maggie Hart: 01:38:53 Okay. It's Kinda tied with Jurassic Park.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:38:55 Yeah, I was, I thought that was a circling us back to your story earlier of your, your early films, the early years with your brother, but so tree of life. That's awesome. Why, why is that your favorite movie? I'm curious.

Maggie Hart: 01:39:12 Okay. A lot of reasons. I think it's a beautiful fill, like the cinematography, the style. Like I just love Terrence Malick style and I love how it's like almost, it's like visual poetry basically. Um, and I love how the first time I thought I had no idea what was going on. And it's just, it's like one of those things that you, I love things that I have to think about and unpack and watch, like over and over again. It's like every time I watch it, things, there's something else going on that I didn't like realize before. And I also just love, like, it's, it's, it's essentially like Malik exploration of like the nature of God and it's like the way of nature and the way of grace. Um, and I love, I love the things that he'd done packing there.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:40:02 Did you see mother?

Maggie Hart: 01:40:05 I haven't seen it. No.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:40:07 I'll be curious to see what you think about that. It's fascinating. I'm a big fan. Yeah. And he actually did, um, uh, it was like a three hour long podcast interview with Tim Ferriss. Fascinating. Okay. Cause he talks about there are three shots in that film, three frames that he used to catch a film, but you can't tell. It's was a challenge that he and his DP can of gave each other in the shooting of that. Um, to only use these three camera angles. Very cool. Yeah. Very cool. And it was the whole time I was watching it just thinking, oh my God, Oh my God. And it's really hard to tell. It's really hard to tell. But um, he goes into the making of it and the process and you know, how much of an impact, you know, cause even Tim Ferriss in the interview talks about how it just, he couldn't stop processing it for days. So it's one of those films that I think you, I'd be curious to see what you think about it. Huh? Yeah. Cause I mean it's, yeah, it's interesting. How's, uh, and I don't know, maybe this is a different film or not, but has a film ever directly influenced your life?

Maggie Hart: 01:41:23 Oh, there's a traffic car.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:41:25 Yeah.

Maggie Hart: 01:41:28 Yes, of course. So many, how many songs has influenced my life. It's so, it's so interesting because I feel like films are very tightly, like oftentimes I'll watch a film that has specifically relates to something that I'm going through or needy or something like that. We are seeing a film fan. I'm totally blanking.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:42:00 Well, right. We've seen so many, I mean it's ridiculous how many movies we've seen. I actually really dig that concept that you were talking about with the timeliness of films. You know, when we, we, it's like, I think I love how you put it. It's like when you need to hear something, it'll appear, you know, and it will be in this, I find that interesting as well based on our earlier conversation around faith and, and just how things happen, you know, and like two weeks after not getting a job, you got this one and you know, that's, that's interesting. Did you think of one?

Maggie Hart: 01:42:34 You know what, I think we'll kind of film, um, newsroom is my favorite show and I think it has a lot to do with, I like watch it when I want to feel better, but it really influenced like the way that the first episode is just, it starts off with him going on this whole rant about why America is not the greatest nation in the world.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:43:02 So,

Maggie Hart: 01:43:03 and then it falls, it's so good. And then it's followed up by, she gives this whole monologue about how they're going to make everything better. I thought about and um, I think it just really validated my desire to like, almost like the insanity of believing the things can be better. Yeah. You know? And that, like, I feel like anyone who wants to like make change or you know, change the world, a lot of people say, you know, you can't do it. It's too big of a problem to fix. And I just love watching that show and it, you know, this whole show about this new scene who are just determined to make things better and could fix everything and how like optimistic that is.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:43:57 Yeah. Well, on the flip side of that great segue, what movie always makes you cry? Could be happy or sad either.

Maggie Hart: 01:44:08 Um, okay. I thought of too. What? I'd never let me go. Always makes me cry.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:44:15 Okay.

Maggie Hart: 01:44:16 Also Amazing Spiderman.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:44:20 Yes. I know exactly why. Yeah, I know exactly why Spider Gwen. Um, what's the happiest movie ever made?

Maggie Hart: 01:44:36 The first thing that just popped in my head, I think the new Mary Poppins might be the happiest movie ever made.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:44:41 Nice. Haven't seen that yet, but it looks like it. Love it. I love it. Yeah. It sounds like that's like the perfect word for that film. From what I've seen that it's just a delight period. There's no error. There's no bashing it, right? It's just like, nope, it's a delight period. Done. Done. So, um, final questions, just, you know, is there anything else that, you know, like last parting words or advice that you have for up and coming writers, directors that you'd like to share?

Maggie Hart: 01:45:22 The advice that I would give to coming writers and directors or filmmakers, especially women filmmakers. I think it's really important to know why you're making what you're making and to define success for what that looks like and making sure that it's coming from your own values and your own, your own ideas as opposed to when you think like the world's going to give you for meeting with us and to just be aware of aware of our culture and aware of what you're putting into it and how people might perceive it, which normally makes me kind of sound like a buzz kill for people to just want to express themselves or, or you know, have these stories that they really want to tell. And I would say like tell your, tell your stories. Like, you know, if you have a passion in your heart to like tell a story, like tell that story, but like take a beat and think about, you know, there, there's ways that you can do it that will be where you're, where you're really thinking about the things that you're putting into the world. You know, like tell that story, but you do it in a responsible way.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:46:39 Nice. Okay. Well where can people find you online? How can they support you? Where are you on the interwebs?

Maggie Hart: 01:46:48 On the interwebs? You can check out my myspace page. That's probably the best place. Heh!

Gabe Ratliff: 01:46:58 It's probably going to come back.

Maggie Hart: 01:47:02 Um, so yeah, check out Impressions on Amazon. So that's exciting. And then I also have a web series called "The Romantic Method" that you can check out on YouTube and yeah, other than that, I mean my, my website is hart4film.com and that has all of my, all of my work on it, that Impressions and "The Romantic Method". And the other feature I produced called Instructions for Living is also on Amazon. And then if anybody's interested in, in the work that I'm doing now, uh, the company I worked for was called Exodus Cry. So you guys should check out that was say, well he's one of their docs that they did before I got there as collaborating. That's on Netflix and yeah, check that out, follow them. We'll be able to see stuff that I'm currently working on at a later date.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:48:02 Thank you so much for your time and for all the great work that you're doing and for all the great work that you are getting into now and just, I love it. I love what you're doing and keep it up and thank you.

Maggie Hart: 01:48:18 Well thank you so much. It's been awesome chatting with you. Thanks for having me on.

Gabe Ratliff: 01:48:27 Well that's it for this episode. If this is your first time listening, thank you so much for being here. I really hope you enjoy the show. The Vitalic Project podcast comes out bi-weekly and is available every other Thursday for your enjoyment and all links and show notes for this episode can be found at vitalicproject.com. If you haven't yet, please subscribe to the show and leave a rating or review on iTunes. If you'd like to be a guest or know someone that would be a great fit, please go to vitalic project.com/guest if you want to follow us, you can find us online by searching @vitalicproject, and thanks again for listening. Until next time, keep being vitalitic!